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3800 series ll vs lll #4576952
11/17/17 11:15 AM
11/17/17 11:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 603
Nebraska
Duffyjr Offline OP
Duffyjr  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 603
Nebraska
So I'm looking to get into a newer Buick and have driven three Lucerne's now, two 08's and one 06 and I can't believe how much different the throttle response is between these and my 99 Lesabre. They just don't seem to have the same response and it makes it seem like the engine is weaker in the newer series lll's. It's not a deal breaker since I'm not a spirited drive but the difference is there.

I remember going from my 91 park avenue with the series one to my 99 series two and how much more throttle response it had.

Anyone else have any experience with this or is it all in my head.


89 GMC Sierra T5 10w30/Wix
08 Lucerne CX NAPA Blend 5w30/Napa Gold
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4576960
11/17/17 11:21 AM
11/17/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 559
MN
14Accent Offline
14Accent  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 559
MN
Biggest difference I can think of is a switch to an aluminum upper plenum and electronic throttle body on the SIII. Your percieved lack of punch may be all in the programming for the throttle opening. Otherwise they make about the same power and torque. It also depends on that final drive ratio that particular chassis has in the transmission.


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2003 Cadillac Seville STS - The winter "beater", it uses the Volt's fuel
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4576961
11/17/17 11:21 AM
11/17/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 486
MB - Manitoba
FastLane Offline
FastLane  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 486
MB - Manitoba
GM torque management. Its even worse now days. My 302 hp V8 pickup can barely chirp a tire. My old 98 200 hp V6 had no troubles spinning the tires. I just test drove a new 2017 Silverado 5.3 355 hp. It seems gutless.


2010 Silverado 4.8 4x4 Mobil 1 5W30 ACDelco PF48E
2002 Mustang GT 4.6 Mobil 1 5W30 MC FL-820S
1966 Cessna 150 Phillips 20W50
2013 Mercury 30hp Mystic 25W40
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4576981
11/17/17 11:37 AM
11/17/17 11:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Several reviews for the FXT I ended up buying mentioned to turn the traction control off if you really wanted to take off on dry pavement, think it was about a half a second difference in the 0-60 times between having it on and off.
Possibly also a factor in this vehicle?


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4577001
11/17/17 11:54 AM
11/17/17 11:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 486
MB - Manitoba
FastLane Offline
FastLane  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 486
MB - Manitoba
I can turn traction control and stabilitrac off, and barely a chirp out of log box reg cab truck. The a$$ end is so light. It should melt the tire with 300 hp.


2010 Silverado 4.8 4x4 Mobil 1 5W30 ACDelco PF48E
2002 Mustang GT 4.6 Mobil 1 5W30 MC FL-820S
1966 Cessna 150 Phillips 20W50
2013 Mercury 30hp Mystic 25W40
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4577035
11/17/17 12:34 PM
11/17/17 12:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,699
Phoenix, AZ
Nick1994 Offline
Nick1994  Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 10,699
Phoenix, AZ
GM electronic throttle bodies absolutely suck, plain and simple. They make cars which should have good power absolutely slower than heck. I made a thread about it, I'll post the link below.

I had a 96' Chevy C1500 Silverado 5.7L and could melt the tires on it. My grandfather had a 5.3L 2003 Silverado (more HP) and my 96' could run circles around it. The 03' couldn't chirp the tires.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...tro#Post4115167


2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L 84k Mobil 1 AFE 0w30 & OEM
2000 Toyota Camry 2.2L 230k Valvoline 5w30 & Fram Ultra
1996 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L 147k Mobil 1 HM 10w40 & Fram Ultra
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4577072
11/17/17 01:36 PM
11/17/17 01:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,185
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,185
Campbellsville, KY
I have the same complaint about DBW vs. non- on the LS-powered GMT800 trucks. Gives you a completely different view of the engine when you drive one with a good old cable running to the throttle plate.


I like Chevy and Valvoline.

'13 Cruze, 1.4T, 113K
'85 GMC C3500, 454, 130K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 169K
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4577086
11/17/17 01:52 PM
11/17/17 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Merkava_4 Offline
Merkava_4  Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
I'd rather have the Series 2 with the old fashion cable drive throttle body. That fly by wire throttle body in the Series 3 falls under the category of unnecessary technology that makes for the eventual throttle body replacement very expensive. Once you get the manifold gaskets replaced in the Series 2 to the updated steel reinforced gaskets, they become very reliable engines.

Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4577139
11/17/17 02:58 PM
11/17/17 02:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 334
Ohio
Dorian Offline
Dorian  Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 334
Ohio
Our 3800 was a series 3 N/A. It was flawless until the day it was totaled at 197K. No leaks even with synthetics and returned 24 mpg overall. It would roast the tires until 20 mph or so. That engine was never touched except for normal maintenance and the rubber coolant hose on the side of the block (known to fail). I completely agree that the throttle response was horrible. It had quite a delay when getting on the gas. I recently drove a Yukon Denali with the 6.2 and it felt like a turd because of the throttle tuning. This is the same issue I have with the high feature V6s and the 6 speed combo. It kills the driving experience.

The series 3 had "stronger" connecting rods.


15 Camry Hybrid SE 48K 0W20 Kendall bulk
14.5 Camry SE 2AR 0W20 M1 AFE 44K (Mom's)
98 Chevy Prizm 1ZZ M1 AFE 0W30 148K (Brother's)
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4577141
11/17/17 03:01 PM
11/17/17 03:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,185
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,185
Campbellsville, KY
Also, having been around numerous cars of the Series 2 and 3 vintage, I really think the 90's Buicks are just a more solid car. Not that the turn of the century models aren't nearly as good, but I don't think the Series III 3800 is more than slightly better than the SII, and the rest of the car just isn't as... solid. More road feedback in the newer ones, at least as many electronic issues... IMHO within their segment it's just hard to beat a late 90's Lesabre.


I like Chevy and Valvoline.

'13 Cruze, 1.4T, 113K
'85 GMC C3500, 454, 130K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 169K
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4577147
11/17/17 03:07 PM
11/17/17 03:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 440
MN
TmanP Offline
TmanP  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 440
MN
Itís not in your head, I agree on the less sensitive electronic throttle on the series 3. My series 3 has plenty of power, and it is effortless, it just requires pressing the pedal down more than in the series 2 lesabre Iíve driven. Thereís a slight delay, but Iíve gottten used to it. Any way you slice it, the 3800 has more power than anyone really needs and will net you 30 mpg highway in a lesabre/regal/LaCrosse. Iím surpirsed the lesabres has as good of throttle response as they did considering the target customer!


2012 Toyota Camry 2.5 30,000 mi
2015 Chevy Silverado LT Z71 5.3 V8 30,000 mi
2010 Toyota Sienna 3.5 V6 150,000 mi
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: Duffyjr] #4577189
11/17/17 03:55 PM
11/17/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 268
Alberta
carviewsonic Offline
carviewsonic  Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 268
Alberta
My "garage queen" in my sig has noticeably better throttle response off the line than my higher mileage '03. And the Lesabre is somewhere in between. I attribute this to the different mileages on them.


'18 Impala
'03 Park Avenue
'05 Park Avenue
'07 Honda Accord
'09 VStar 1300
Re: 3800 series ll vs lll [Re: carviewsonic] #4732979
04/20/18 10:41 AM
04/20/18 10:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 603
Nebraska
Duffyjr Offline OP
Duffyjr  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 603
Nebraska
I wanted to update this since I ended up purchasing an 08 Lucerne with 78k and have been driving it for a few weeks.

It is true that when you take off it doesn't have the punch that the series ll has unless you depress the throttle further but what I have noticed is once you get out of first gear and into second or about 25/25 mph and beyond it seems to have a better response closer to the series ll as far as how far you have to depress the throttle. At higher speeds I don't think there is that much difference.

I actually think it's better in regards to a smoother take off. I still have the 99 and drove it for the first time since buying the Lucerne and its a lot harder to get the smooth take off due to the throttle response. To me it's a good trade off.


89 GMC Sierra T5 10w30/Wix
08 Lucerne CX NAPA Blend 5w30/Napa Gold
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30

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