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Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? #4575530
11/15/17 10:17 PM
11/15/17 10:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,593
VA
Gebo Offline OP
Gebo  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,593
VA
I need some help. I was told not to use "European" oils in my "Japanese" cars as they would not be good for them. I have SJ and SL cars. This conversation was in a forum and I am awaiting a response to my question of "Why not?"

It appears to me that the "European" oils have more good stuff in them and could protect my engines better than a "NonEuropean" oil.

What am I missing? What ammo can you give me in this discussion?

What is the reason I should not use European oils in my cars? Are there some?


'98 LEX LS400 290K
'02 4Runner 230K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K
Amsoil in last two.
Schaeffer in the first two.

Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575539
11/15/17 10:25 PM
11/15/17 10:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,056
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,056
Wet side WA
Use what's on sale. Worry less and enjoy life more.


2004 Corolla 130035
Out: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 7156 Miles
In: Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 Purolator PureOne 3-14-19 129693
2006 Duramax 74725
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575541
11/15/17 10:26 PM
11/15/17 10:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
Originally Posted By: Gebo
I need some help. I was told not to use "European" oils in my "Japanese" cars as they would not be good for them. I have SJ and SL cars. This conversation was in a forum and I am awaiting a response to my question of "Why not?"

It appears to me that the "European" oils have more good stuff in them and could protect my engines better than a "NonEuropean" oil.

What am I missing? What ammo can you give me in this discussion?

What is the reason I should not use European oils in my cars? Are there some?

Categorically? No reasons at all.

There might be a spec mismatch, depending on the oil and the application. E.g., if you had an engine that calls for an ILSAC GF-5 5w-30, an ACEA A3 5w-30 might have too high an HTHS and an unnecessarily heavy additive package. But cases like that aren't really about "European" vs. "Japanese"; they're simply a matter of the specs involved.

If there's a grain of truth in what those folks are saying, it's that there aren't a lot of oils that meet ILSAC GF-4/GF-5 and ACEA specs at the same time. There also aren't a lot of xW-20 and xW-30 oils that carry API SM/SN and ACEA specs.

But even that doesn't mean much for you if your cars all call for SJ and SL. There are plenty of "Euro" oils that carry those specs as well. They may or may not be "better" than any other SJ/SL/SM/SN oils, but there's no reason you couldn't use them.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575542
11/15/17 10:27 PM
11/15/17 10:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 454
Martinsburg West Virginia
71Chevyguy Offline
71Chevyguy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 454
Martinsburg West Virginia
European oils tend to be on the heavy side because the engines are built for them. If you had newer japanese cars that spec 0w20, I wouldn't suggest euro oils. Since your vehicles are older, I would recommend something like M1 0w40 since it is on the border of being a 30wt anyway, just with a ton of additives being a full SAPS oil. No reason not to use full SAPS euro oils, not the low SAPS diesel oils though, not much in those oils at all, they would have to be changed often.


18 Focus 1.0 Valvoline Modern Engine 0w20 / STP XL filter
99 VW Beetle TDI M1TDT / Mann filter
98 Buick LeSabre Kendall HM Ti 5w30 GF4 / Bosch Dist+
85 Skylark 2.5
71 Nova 250
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575543
11/15/17 10:27 PM
11/15/17 10:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,298
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 8,298
...
Mazda recommends Total oil in Europe.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: 71Chevyguy] #4575551
11/15/17 10:35 PM
11/15/17 10:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
d00df00d Offline
d00df00d  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,555
PA
Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
European oils tend to be on the heavy side because the engines are built for them.

Only true for the xW-30 oils based on ACEA A3 or C3. The ones based on ACEA A1 or A5 aren't much different from API/ILSAC oils in terms of viscosity.


Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
Since your vehicles are older, I would recommend something like M1 0w40 since it is on the border of being a 30wt anyway, just with a ton of additives being a full SAPS oil.

It's not THAT heavily additized. But I agree that it's worth looking at.


Originally Posted By: 71Chevyguy
No reason not to use full SAPS euro oils, not the low SAPS diesel oils though, not much in those oils at all, they would have to be changed often.

Their TBNs tend to be low, but there's plenty of other stuff in them. It just doesn't show up on a VOA.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575570
11/15/17 11:02 PM
11/15/17 11:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,062
MTL, CANADA
Rolla07 Offline
Rolla07  Offline

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,062
MTL, CANADA
I dont think there are many reasons to agree or disagree with you on this. What is the intended benwfit you seek? Im not sure a Euro spec oil will improve anything at all. More additives? Will your car benefit from more? Same with TBN, lower starting TBN doesnt necessarily mean it wont outlast a product that had a higher TBN to start with.


2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967

Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575577
11/15/17 11:11 PM
11/15/17 11:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,179
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,179
Kalifornia Kollective
Yeah, and don't ever eat Chinese food, or Mexican food unless you are one ... Huh. Use whatever oil you want smile

Rule number one - some oil is better than no oil. Brand and source fall so far below this, they are not even visible.


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575598
11/15/17 11:50 PM
11/15/17 11:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 493
Alberta
tcp71 Offline
tcp71  Offline

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 493
Alberta
You know those exact Japanese cars are spec’d for “euro” oils.....in Europe, where they are also sold.


2016 F150 Eco: Edge 0w40
2005 Sienna 3.3: mobil 0w40 (varies)
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575634
11/16/17 12:58 AM
11/16/17 12:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,709
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,709
Down Under
Just about every oil sold in Australia has both American API specs and European ACEA specs. It makes for a good oil, and I tend to prefer oil that has both specs.

Rest assured that most Japanese cars in Australia will be running on Euro grade oils, no problem.

BTW in the North American market that is dominated by ILSAC style oils, PP 5W30 is API SN and ILSAC GF-5 and ACEA A5/B5, that's good stuff.

The M1 5W30 I am using right now is A1/B1, but this grade will finish soon under the new ACEA sequences, and the higher A5/B5 will only be allowed.

If you want the heavier stuff, Euro A3/B4 then M1 0W40 and Edge 0W40 fit that requirement nicely. You can't get an oil that is both GF-5 and A3/B4, as the requirements conflict.

Last edited by SR5; 11/16/17 01:01 AM. Reason: A3/B4

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575689
11/16/17 06:14 AM
11/16/17 06:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,909
Indiana
dlundblad Online happy
dlundblad  Online Happy

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 10,909
Indiana
Arguing about oil on car boards really gets you nowhere. If you were to ask them why, I don't think they could give you an answer. (Why is kale better than spinach? Why should I eat a baked sweet potato over baked squash. There isn't a good answer because one simply does not exist.) I don't think they know the difference between high and low SAPS oils so you're probably good there too.

You found the answer out for yourself so you're good to go. A3/B4 0w40 it is and sleep well at night.

And yes, those cars in Europe and certainly Australia are running A3/B4 (Euro) oils issue free. Their manuals most likely call for it.

Last edited by dlundblad; 11/16/17 06:17 AM.

03 Jeep WJ 4.0 202k Edge 10w40 HM Fram XG16
02 Volvo S60 2.4T 186k M1 0w40 Mahle OX149D
97 Chevy Blazer 4.3 153k Synpower 5w30 Supertech ST3980 (Ecore)

Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575697
11/16/17 06:31 AM
11/16/17 06:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,559
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,559
Malaysia
I observed that an A3B4 SL shows better blotter 'performance' than an API SN without ACEA in similar Mitsubishi 4G15 engines by 2 different owners .......
Hence using European ACEA oil in Asian engines calling for API Sx as a non-issue, if not better, IMHO.

Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575729
11/16/17 07:43 AM
11/16/17 07:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,593
VA
Gebo Offline OP
Gebo  Offline OP

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,593
VA
I am just trying to understand the reasoning behind the comment. When I look at European oils in general, they tend to have higher HTHS values, more Zinc and Phosphorus and higher Sulfated Ash (I don't have a clue if that is good or bad) and tend to be a little thicker at any particular weight. Then I see how they meet all these rigid requirements of MB and Porsche and BMW and I start thinking that they must be better oils.

And I'm just talking about my old cars, SJ and SL. When someone in the engine oil business says I would be better off leaving the European oils and sticking with the SN, I want to know why. Please understand as I don't want to offend anyone but I don't need any oil selection advice. I already have my brands. My guts tell me that European oils are better but I am wondering if there are additives, like the higher Sulfated Ash, that would be detrimental to my old cars. I'm assuming the higher Zinc and Phosphorous are better for them.

I realize some of you may be pulling your hair out thinking, "What is this guy's problem? Why is he splitting hairs over something that means virtually nothing in this life?"
A small percentage of you understand that I just want to know. That's all. You can't say there isn't a difference because I can read the spec sheets. You can say the difference doesn't matter. Then my followup question is, "Why is there a difference if the difference doesn't matter?" I hope you understand. I am in a good mood. I am smiling getting ready for my boiled eggs and home grown sausage.


'98 LEX LS400 290K
'02 4Runner 230K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'07 Lex GX470 65K
Amsoil in last two.
Schaeffer in the first two.

Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575791
11/16/17 09:24 AM
11/16/17 09:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,709
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,709
Down Under
My view is that the North American market runs ILSAC oils which are resource conserving (use a bit less fuel) by way of lower viscosity and lower HTHS. They are also mid-SAPS and restricted in max allowable Phos (and therefore ZDDP - zinc) to ensure a long life for the exhaust cats. The up shot of all this is an oil that is good for the environment, good enough for the car, and needs to be changed regularly.

The Euro oils, especially the high-SAPS and high-HTHS A3/B4 oils are for both petrol (gas) and light duty diesel, with extended drain intervals. Something like 20,000 miles and 2 years is the common OCI there. These long life oils have a large reserve of everything built in: Viscosity, HTHS, TBN, SAPS, ZDDP so they can go the distance. The high HTHS and ZDDP also make them suitable performance oils for cars like Porsche and their A40 spec.

Europe has very low sulphur fuel so the need for high-SAPS and high TBN has been reduced, so they often use a mid-SAPS C3 oil now days. But a full synthetic that is still suitable for long oil change intervals.

Another way of looking at it is that most of the North Ametican motoring public want cheap oil changes but are happy to do them regularly. The European market is all about the longest possible oil change interval, but when it's time to change the oil, they use a very expensive and high quality synthetic.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol GTX Ultraclean 15W40 A3/B3 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Using European Oils in NonEuropean Cars? [Re: Gebo] #4575832
11/16/17 10:03 AM
11/16/17 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,120
Guilford, CT
exranger06 Online confused
exranger06  Online Confused

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,120
Guilford, CT
What kind of bad things will happen if you put Euro oil in? Will the oil somehow sense it's not in a Euro engine and immediately turn itself into sludge? crzy


2006 Ford Ranger Sport
1992 Honda Accord EX
2013 Toyota Sienna XLE AWD
1994 Ford Bronco XLT (project)
2011 Cadillac Escalade ESV (wife's)
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