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#4537808 - 10/09/17 10:02 AM Oil viscosity and VVT
JustN89 Offline


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 472
Loc: DFW
I've read and heard of a lot of issues with Toyota's VVT-i and Hyundai's CVVT which can rattle loudly on start up from stuck or broken gears in the VVT actuator. Now I've searched on here trying to find this out, but have come up empty so far.

I had thought that viscosity must be the answer to better VVT protection, but those two manufacturers recommend different weights (0W-20 for Toyota, 5W-20/30 and 10W-30 for Hyundai). So now I'm looking at different additive packages and how that might help. When it comes to taking care of the VVT, would you be more concerned with the lower viscosity oil or do you look for certain additives in the viscosity of your choosing?

Sorry if this has been covered before, I couldn't find it if it has.

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#4537826 - 10/09/17 10:17 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89]
Kamele0N Offline


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2041
Loc: Slovenia
Hmmm... I have never bothered myself with oil viscosity and vvt...

What do you want to achieve?
_________________________
2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD various 10w40

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#4537827 - 10/09/17 10:17 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6576
Loc: Hudson, NH
Regarding this specific issue, its more about fast oil flow than protection. Thinner oil (and cleaner) is better for VVT. Here's why. When the engine starts, oil flows down a narrow passage to the VVT actuator/controller. The pressure created by the flowing oil serves as hydraulics, unlocking a tiny pin that holds the actuator in place when the engine is off. If the flow is not good at startup, (dirty oil channel, use of thick oil, etc) there is a delay in flow. The actuator attempts to move, hammering on that pin prior to release. Once there is enough oil pressure to release the lock pin, approx 5-10 seconds, the noise disappears. This is referred to as the vvt startup rattle. Some manufacturers like Hyundai specify certain filters with good ADB to lessen the effects of a startup dry leading controller rattle.

So.. I would use a thin syn for best flow and keeping engine clean, change the oil on time (essential for vvt!), and a filter with a known good ADBV.
_________________________
06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
03 Maxima 3.5L 149k ST HM 10w30

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#4537838 - 10/09/17 10:31 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2745
Loc: Wet side WA
My Toyota Corolla VVT-I is more than 13.5 years old its had no issues yet. It has always been serviced within factory spec. It's been on Full Synthetic since 66K 5w-30 and 10w-30.



Edited by JohnnyJohnson (10/09/17 10:43 AM)
_________________________
2004 Toyota Corolla 121707
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 74047
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

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#4537845 - 10/09/17 10:41 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89]
CELICA_XX Offline


Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 861
Loc: Oklahoma
I've only used the factory spec for my VVT cars.

Never any issues.
_________________________
15 Toyota Prius - M1 EP 0w20
02 Toyota ECHO - Valv MaxLife Full Syn 5w30
97 Lexus LX450 - M1 0w40
93 Lexus LS400 - Valv MaxLife Full Syn 5w30

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#4537852 - 10/09/17 10:43 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7670
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
My xB has had M1 5W30 since the factory oil changes were used up (except for an ill-fated run of M1 0W30 AFE, which sheared by 7K), lately using M1 5W30 EP for 10K changes, and I've never heard any VVT noises, it's now 12 1/2 years old and pushing 90K.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 15 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)

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#4537856 - 10/09/17 10:46 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89]
zeng Offline


Registered: 09/01/15
Posts: 2188
Loc: Malaysia
15W40 mineral for initial 110k miles , followed by 10W40 blend for 40k miles todate .....
Yota K3-VE engine VVT abslolutely no issues ...... as are it peers.
It's a myth that VVT requires thin oils.

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#4537872 - 10/09/17 10:56 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: zeng]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6576
Loc: Hudson, NH
Not a myth cause it didn't happen to you. just fortunate. Happened to me, many others.
_________________________
06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
03 Maxima 3.5L 149k ST HM 10w30

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#4537878 - 10/09/17 11:00 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: LeakySeals]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6377
Loc: Texas
Would think it’s engine specific … I have a pushrod VVT that does not mind 15w40 … heck, butt dyno likes Dino
Some DOHC set ups might be another story …
My ecoboost ran fine on 0w40’s …

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#4537884 - 10/09/17 11:04 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: 4WD]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6576
Loc: Hudson, NH
Agreed. Toyota and Hyundai I4's seem to suffer from this most.
_________________________
06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
03 Maxima 3.5L 149k ST HM 10w30

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#4537904 - 10/09/17 11:22 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 11970
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Nothing you can do about startup other than insure you have a good ADBV and good flow. I had to try 4 different filters before I settled on what I'm using now. I think most noise is TCT anyway. Doesnt the ECM controlled VVT actuator remain locked at the porpoer position at idle and startup?

In the Nissan I have tailored viscosity to have the VVT in a good range to make torque where I want it. Lately that required a THINNING of Dexos1 5w30 down a tad with a litre of 5w20.

My Last year OIL darling - and still current darling - CASTROL MAGNATEC 5w30 Synthetic seems to keep EVERYTHING operating as designed. Current fill is Smooth, sweet, quiet and with good fuel mileage; much improved over the already dang good SS Magnatec I used last year.
_________________________
2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter

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#4537919 - 10/09/17 11:35 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89]
THafeez Offline


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 651
Loc: New Jersey
Completely anecdotal, but when I used PUP 5w30 paired with a fram ultra last year, it was the quietest my 2azfe vvti engine was. However it got louder as the miles racked up. I've used dealer bulk with OEM filter , Quaker State Defy 10W30 with the Ultra filter (same filter as used with PUP), MS5K 5w30 with a garbage proline/puro jobber filter, and now on BC Edge 0W30 with a bosch D3421, Nothings quieter than the Pennzoil Ultra Plat and Fram Ultra. On the other hand, the car consumed ultra like it was nothing. 3/4 of a quart in only 3k.

Again what I have stated is anecdotal, the engines got high miles and maybe fuel dilution plays a part in it. When I change ANY oil around 5k no gasoline smells in the oil. 6-7k is when no matter how hot I get the oil, it smells like gasoline. Since Pennzoil Ultra is hard to find and I have many other oils in the stash I'll keep trying something else until I find something that keeps the engine quiet and maybe another filter that eliminates start up rattle. I believe the Fram Ultra is as good as it's going to get, but I have some RP and M1 filters I'd like to try.
_________________________
2004 Toyota Solara SE 2.4 2AZFE
175,000 miles
Valvoline Synpower Maxlife 5W30
Royal Purple 20-400 oversize

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#4537934 - 10/09/17 11:48 AM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: THafeez]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6576
Loc: Hudson, NH
Originally Posted By: THafeez
Completely anecdotal, but when I used PUP 5w30 paired with a fram ultra last year, it was the quietest my 2azfe vvti engine was. However it got louder as the miles racked up. I've used dealer bulk with OEM filter , Quaker State Defy 10W30 with the Ultra filter (same filter as used with PUP), MS5K 5w30 with a garbage proline/puro jobber filter, and now on BC Edge 0W30 with a bosch D3421, Nothings quieter than the Pennzoil Ultra Plat and Fram Ultra. On the other hand, the car consumed ultra like it was nothing. 3/4 of a quart in only 3k.

Again what I have stated is anecdotal, the engines got high miles and maybe fuel dilution plays a part in it. When I change ANY oil around 5k no gasoline smells in the oil. 6-7k is when no matter how hot I get the oil, it smells like gasoline. Since Pennzoil Ultra is hard to find and I have many other oils in the stash I'll keep trying something else until I find something that keeps the engine quiet and maybe another filter that eliminates start up rattle. I believe the Fram Ultra is as good as it's going to get, but I have some RP and M1 filters I'd like to try.

Is it blocked piston oil control return holes, valve seals, both?
_________________________
06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
03 Maxima 3.5L 149k ST HM 10w30

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#4537942 - 10/09/17 12:01 PM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: LeakySeals]
THafeez Offline


Registered: 08/15/16
Posts: 651
Loc: New Jersey
I'm not sure. I've never had the consumption problem diagnosed. Many are oil burners so I know its normal to burn the amount mine does and even more for some. I think that lower visc oils like pup have higher consumption than say QS defy 10W30 (which took 4k to get to 1/2 qt). The BG 0w30 is the thickest I've run so far so we will see how much of it the engine consumes over a 5k OCI.

Also even though the extended engine replacement warranty expired a while ago, it would have to consume 1+ qt over 1000 miles or something extreme like that to warrant a new engine. In that regard I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle in terms of consumption.
_________________________
2004 Toyota Solara SE 2.4 2AZFE
175,000 miles
Valvoline Synpower Maxlife 5W30
Royal Purple 20-400 oversize

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#4537955 - 10/09/17 12:22 PM Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: THafeez]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6576
Loc: Hudson, NH
My 02 Camry DD with a 2AZ-FE I4 vvt showed signs of both. But mainly it was the valve seals (blue smoke at startup). So I benefited from high mileage oil. Puffing up and conditioning the rubber seals cut my consumption in half. Going thicker helped with the clogged piston oil hole problem but created the vvt startup noise. How I formed the opinion I posted above. So I went with M1 HM 10w30 which had the seal swellers/conditioners + its a syn so it also gave me good (enough) flow to quiet vvt noise. She lasted another 150k, died at 345k (exhaust valve broke, trashed the cylinder).
_________________________
06 Escalade 6.0L AWD 160k. M1 5w30 Fram TG
03 Maxima 3.5L 149k ST HM 10w30

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