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Oil viscosity and VVT #4537808
10/09/17 10:02 AM
10/09/17 10:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 580
DFW
JustN89 Offline OP
JustN89  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 580
DFW
I've read and heard of a lot of issues with Toyota's VVT-i and Hyundai's CVVT which can rattle loudly on start up from stuck or broken gears in the VVT actuator. Now I've searched on here trying to find this out, but have come up empty so far.

I had thought that viscosity must be the answer to better VVT protection, but those two manufacturers recommend different weights (0W-20 for Toyota, 5W-20/30 and 10W-30 for Hyundai). So now I'm looking at different additive packages and how that might help. When it comes to taking care of the VVT, would you be more concerned with the lower viscosity oil or do you look for certain additives in the viscosity of your choosing?

Sorry if this has been covered before, I couldn't find it if it has.

Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89] #4537826
10/09/17 10:17 AM
10/09/17 10:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,225
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,225
Slovenia EU
Hmmm... I have never bothered myself with oil viscosity and vvt...

What do you want to achieve?


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Elf FullTech FE 5w30
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89] #4537827
10/09/17 10:17 AM
10/09/17 10:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
Regarding this specific issue, its more about fast oil flow than protection. Thinner oil (and cleaner) is better for VVT. Here's why. When the engine starts, oil flows down a narrow passage to the VVT actuator/controller. The pressure created by the flowing oil serves as hydraulics, unlocking a tiny pin that holds the actuator in place when the engine is off. If the flow is not good at startup, (dirty oil channel, use of thick oil, etc) there is a delay in flow. The actuator attempts to move, hammering on that pin prior to release. Once there is enough oil pressure to release the lock pin, approx 5-10 seconds, the noise disappears. This is referred to as the vvt startup rattle. Some manufacturers like Hyundai specify certain filters with good ADB to lessen the effects of a startup dry leading controller rattle.

So.. I would use a thin syn for best flow and keeping engine clean, change the oil on time (essential for vvt!), and a filter with a known good ADBV.


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89] #4537838
10/09/17 10:31 AM
10/09/17 10:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,344
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,344
Wet side WA
My Toyota Corolla VVT-I is more than 13.5 years old its had no issues yet. It has always been serviced within factory spec. It's been on Full Synthetic since 66K 5w-30 and 10w-30.


Last edited by JohnnyJohnson; 10/09/17 10:43 AM.

2004 Corolla 125400
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89] #4537845
10/09/17 10:41 AM
10/09/17 10:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 878
Oklahoma
CELICA_XX Offline
CELICA_XX  Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 878
Oklahoma
I've only used the factory spec for my VVT cars.

Never any issues.


15 Toyota Prius - M1 EP 0w20
02 Toyota ECHO - Valv MaxLife Full Syn 5w30 SN+
97 Lexus LX450 - M1 0w40
93 Lexus LS400 - Valv MaxLife Full Syn 5w30
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89] #4537852
10/09/17 10:43 AM
10/09/17 10:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,066
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,066
Cincinnati, OH, USA
My xB has had M1 5W30 since the factory oil changes were used up (except for an ill-fated run of M1 0W30 AFE, which sheared by 7K), lately using M1 5W30 EP for 10K changes, and I've never heard any VVT noises, it's now 12 1/2 years old and pushing 90K.


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89] #4537856
10/09/17 10:46 AM
10/09/17 10:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,338
Malaysia
zeng Offline
zeng  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,338
Malaysia
15W40 mineral for initial 110k miles , followed by 10W40 blend for 40k miles todate .....
Yota K3-VE engine VVT abslolutely no issues ...... as are it peers.
It's a myth that VVT requires thin oils.

Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: zeng] #4537872
10/09/17 10:56 AM
10/09/17 10:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
Not a myth cause it didn't happen to you. just fortunate. Happened to me, many others.


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: LeakySeals] #4537878
10/09/17 11:00 AM
10/09/17 11:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,081
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,081
Texas
Would think it’s engine specific … I have a pushrod VVT that does not mind 15w40 … heck, butt dyno likes Dino
Some DOHC set ups might be another story …
My ecoboost ran fine on 0w40’s …

Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: 4WD] #4537884
10/09/17 11:04 AM
10/09/17 11:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
Agreed. Toyota and Hyundai I4's seem to suffer from this most.


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89] #4537904
10/09/17 11:22 AM
10/09/17 11:22 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,250
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,250
N.H, U.S.A.
Nothing you can do about startup other than insure you have a good ADBV and good flow. I had to try 4 different filters before I settled on what I'm using now. I think most noise is TCT anyway. Doesnt the ECM controlled VVT actuator remain locked at the porpoer position at idle and startup?

In the Nissan I have tailored viscosity to have the VVT in a good range to make torque where I want it. Lately that required a THINNING of Dexos1 5w30 down a tad with a litre of 5w20.

My Last year OIL darling - and still current darling - CASTROL MAGNATEC 5w30 Synthetic seems to keep EVERYTHING operating as designed. Current fill is Smooth, sweet, quiet and with good fuel mileage; much improved over the already dang good SS Magnatec I used last year.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#9 41392mi-QSUD10W30 + M110A CHAMP Filter; 2017 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: JustN89] #4537919
10/09/17 11:35 AM
10/09/17 11:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 654
New Jersey
THafeez Offline
THafeez  Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 654
New Jersey
Completely anecdotal, but when I used PUP 5w30 paired with a fram ultra last year, it was the quietest my 2azfe vvti engine was. However it got louder as the miles racked up. I've used dealer bulk with OEM filter , Quaker State Defy 10W30 with the Ultra filter (same filter as used with PUP), MS5K 5w30 with a garbage proline/puro jobber filter, and now on BC Edge 0W30 with a bosch D3421, Nothings quieter than the Pennzoil Ultra Plat and Fram Ultra. On the other hand, the car consumed ultra like it was nothing. 3/4 of a quart in only 3k.

Again what I have stated is anecdotal, the engines got high miles and maybe fuel dilution plays a part in it. When I change ANY oil around 5k no gasoline smells in the oil. 6-7k is when no matter how hot I get the oil, it smells like gasoline. Since Pennzoil Ultra is hard to find and I have many other oils in the stash I'll keep trying something else until I find something that keeps the engine quiet and maybe another filter that eliminates start up rattle. I believe the Fram Ultra is as good as it's going to get, but I have some RP and M1 filters I'd like to try.


2004 Toyota Solara SE 2.4 2AZFE
182,000 miles
Castrol Magnatec Semi-Syn 5W30
Royal Purple 20-400 oversize 2nd run
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: THafeez] #4537934
10/09/17 11:48 AM
10/09/17 11:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
Originally Posted By: THafeez
Completely anecdotal, but when I used PUP 5w30 paired with a fram ultra last year, it was the quietest my 2azfe vvti engine was. However it got louder as the miles racked up. I've used dealer bulk with OEM filter , Quaker State Defy 10W30 with the Ultra filter (same filter as used with PUP), MS5K 5w30 with a garbage proline/puro jobber filter, and now on BC Edge 0W30 with a bosch D3421, Nothings quieter than the Pennzoil Ultra Plat and Fram Ultra. On the other hand, the car consumed ultra like it was nothing. 3/4 of a quart in only 3k.

Again what I have stated is anecdotal, the engines got high miles and maybe fuel dilution plays a part in it. When I change ANY oil around 5k no gasoline smells in the oil. 6-7k is when no matter how hot I get the oil, it smells like gasoline. Since Pennzoil Ultra is hard to find and I have many other oils in the stash I'll keep trying something else until I find something that keeps the engine quiet and maybe another filter that eliminates start up rattle. I believe the Fram Ultra is as good as it's going to get, but I have some RP and M1 filters I'd like to try.

Is it blocked piston oil control return holes, valve seals, both?


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: LeakySeals] #4537942
10/09/17 12:01 PM
10/09/17 12:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 654
New Jersey
THafeez Offline
THafeez  Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 654
New Jersey
I'm not sure. I've never had the consumption problem diagnosed. Many are oil burners so I know its normal to burn the amount mine does and even more for some. I think that lower visc oils like pup have higher consumption than say QS defy 10W30 (which took 4k to get to 1/2 qt). The BG 0w30 is the thickest I've run so far so we will see how much of it the engine consumes over a 5k OCI.

Also even though the extended engine replacement warranty expired a while ago, it would have to consume 1+ qt over 1000 miles or something extreme like that to warrant a new engine. In that regard I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle in terms of consumption.


2004 Toyota Solara SE 2.4 2AZFE
182,000 miles
Castrol Magnatec Semi-Syn 5W30
Royal Purple 20-400 oversize 2nd run
Re: Oil viscosity and VVT [Re: THafeez] #4537955
10/09/17 12:22 PM
10/09/17 12:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,725
Hudson, NH
My 02 Camry DD with a 2AZ-FE I4 vvt showed signs of both. But mainly it was the valve seals (blue smoke at startup). So I benefited from high mileage oil. Puffing up and conditioning the rubber seals cut my consumption in half. Going thicker helped with the clogged piston oil hole problem but created the vvt startup noise. How I formed the opinion I posted above. So I went with M1 HM 10w30 which had the seal swellers/conditioners + its a syn so it also gave me good (enough) flow to quiet vvt noise. She lasted another 150k, died at 345k (exhaust valve broke, trashed the cylinder).


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
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