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Average Fuel Dilution? #4508114
09/05/17 12:24 PM
09/05/17 12:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline OP
2015_PSD  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
From a Ford 6.7L point of view, what are you guy/gals seeing for a typical reading? I am seeing 4% to 5% (which I think to be a little high considering the highway miles I run). I had a failed MAF sensor a while back that I thought was the reason for the higher readings, but my last UOA came back at 4%. Before I head back to the dealer, I wanted to see what you guys are experiencing as well as what is the point where I should be concerned?

Thanks for the thoughts.

Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4508234
09/05/17 03:33 PM
09/05/17 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,922
Florida, Cape Coral
Eddie Offline
Eddie  Offline
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,922
Florida, Cape Coral
Blackstone laboratory sets the upper dilution limit at 2.0%. However; I've seen 3% or slightly more on some engines (Honda turbo & Mazda SkyActiv) and apparently no wear problems. I would only be concerned if the wear values in a UOA showed high wear values. Ed

Last edited by Eddie; 09/05/17 03:34 PM.

CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)
Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4508305
09/05/17 05:06 PM
09/05/17 05:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 693
Ont Canada
Koz1 Offline
Koz1  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 693
Ont Canada
Bio content of Fuel?


Currently using, Fuchs TITAN GT1 PRO FLEX 5W-30, M1 5W-20 and Castrol Edge 0W-20 Gold B.
Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: Koz1] #4508372
09/05/17 06:28 PM
09/05/17 06:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline OP
2015_PSD  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Bio content of Fuel?
<5%

Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: Eddie] #4508373
09/05/17 06:30 PM
09/05/17 06:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline OP
2015_PSD  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Blackstone laboratory sets the upper dilution limit at 2.0%. However; I've seen 3% or slightly more on some engines (Honda turbo & Mazda SkyActiv) and apparently no wear problems. I would only be concerned if the wear values in a UOA showed high wear values. Ed
Is it the same for diesel versus gasoline? I was thinking it could be higher with diesel with less of a concern.

Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4508389
09/05/17 06:49 PM
09/05/17 06:49 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,121
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,121
upstate NY
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Blackstone laboratory sets the upper dilution limit at 2.0%. However; I've seen 3% or slightly more on some engines (Honda turbo & Mazda SkyActiv) and apparently no wear problems. I would only be concerned if the wear values in a UOA showed high wear values. Ed
Is it the same for diesel versus gasoline? I was thinking it could be higher with diesel with less of a concern.


Probably varies by manufacturer. My Detroit DD13 has a warning limit of 7% fuel, but with an older Detroit Series 60 the limit is 2.5%.

I can't help you with your 6.7 Ford, but I had two Volvos with 2-3% fuel dilution. The cause was faulty injector cups (at very low miles) and they were replaced twice under warranty before Volvo came up with a corrected design. A Ford dealer should be able to let their computers load test the injectors in each cylinder for problems. That's all I have to offer. shrug


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 101k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: dustyroads] #4508402
09/05/17 07:01 PM
09/05/17 07:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline OP
2015_PSD  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Blackstone laboratory sets the upper dilution limit at 2.0%. However; I've seen 3% or slightly more on some engines (Honda turbo & Mazda SkyActiv) and apparently no wear problems. I would only be concerned if the wear values in a UOA showed high wear values. Ed
Is it the same for diesel versus gasoline? I was thinking it could be higher with diesel with less of a concern.


Probably varies by manufacturer. My Detroit DD13 has a warning limit of 7% fuel, but with an older Detroit Series 60 the limit is 2.5%.

I can't help you with your 6.7 Ford, but I had two Volvos with 2-3% fuel dilution. The cause was faulty injector cups (at very low miles) and they were replaced twice under warranty before Volvo came up with a corrected design. A Ford dealer should be able to let their computers load test the injectors in each cylinder for problems. That's all I have to offer. shrug
Thanks Dusty. I guess I will have to take it on and have it checked out. It has been flagged 4 different times (not sequential) for dilution. Perhaps I have a bad injector.

Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4508443
09/05/17 07:32 PM
09/05/17 07:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 318
MD
claluja Offline
claluja  Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 318
MD
< 0.5% for mine.


2014 F250 6.7L PSD
2006 Sequoia 4.7L
2005 E500 5.0L
2018 Jeep Rubicon, Pentastar 3.6L
Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4508962
09/06/17 10:29 AM
09/06/17 10:29 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,624
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
dnewton3  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,624
Indianapolis, IN
5% is the cautionary limit. Not an assurance of harm, but the time to look for escalation of wear.
If the wear metals (rates) are OK, then I'd not worry.
However, I'd not want fuel to go above that during the OCI.
If you're historically seeing 3-5% fuel, and the metals are fine, I'd stick to the OCIs that are giving you the desirable wear results.
If it's the IOLM you're following, then great.

The 6.7L PSD seems to have a fairly large variation of fuel from unit to unit. Not much rhyme or reason to it. Typically lots of idling will cause the fuel up from regens. Why yours is high from good long runs is a bit of a mystery. But as long as it's not harming the wear rates (and it does not seem to be doing so in the least), you'll just have to consider it normal.

Last edited by dnewton3; 09/06/17 10:35 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4508987
09/06/17 10:54 AM
09/06/17 10:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 884
California
mbacfp Offline
mbacfp  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 884
California
2015_PSD. How often does your truck regen? Mine does it exactly every 500 miles. My Blackstone UOAs have come back < 0.5%, but oil shears from a 40wt to a 30wt pretty quickly which makes me question Blackstone's fuel dilution numbers. Might try a different lab to confirm for myself.

On the 6.7, does fuel dilution numbers come primarily from Regen frequency?


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: dnewton3] #4509063
09/06/17 12:07 PM
09/06/17 12:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline OP
2015_PSD  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
5% is the cautionary limit. Not an assurance of harm, but the time to look for escalation of wear. If the wear metals (rates) are OK, then I'd not worry. However, I'd not want fuel to go above that during the OCI. If you're historically seeing 3-5% fuel, and the metals are fine, I'd stick to the OCIs that are giving you the desirable wear results. If it's the IOLM you're following, then great.

The 6.7L PSD seems to have a fairly large variation of fuel from unit to unit. Not much rhyme or reason to it. Typically lots of idling will cause the fuel up from regens. Why yours is high from good long runs is a bit of a mystery. But as long as it's not harming the wear rates (and it does not seem to be doing so in the least), you'll just have to consider it normal.
Thanks Dave. The iOLM has never indicated to change the oil (not sure what its recommendation would be), but 7.5-8K would be "my" OCI limit at present since the dilution is keeping me cautious. The thing that is bothering me the most is something seems to have changed since I had (what I consider to be) decent fuel dilution rates until around 32K on the truck and then things went a bit awry.

The MAF failed during the OCI that had 5% so I backed the OCI down a little to see what would happen to the dilution rates and they went down, but not back to less than 1% as before, although on a per mile basis the last OCI has less fuel dilution than the previous two. I think something is still happening, just not sure what and I suspect the dealer may be the only recourse. Regens on the 6.7L are fairly long (at least on my truck) and I am sure they are contributing, but something sure seems to be "off".


Code:
Vehicle Mileage	44,144	37,027	32,700	26,550	21,330	14,470	10,692	6,234	1,570
Oil Mileage	7,117	4,327	6,150	5,220	6,860	4,018	4,458	4,664	1,570
								
							
Fuel Dilution	4.00%	3.40%	5.00%	<1.0%	<1.0%	<1.0%	2.70%	2.70%	<1.0%

Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: mbacfp] #4509068
09/06/17 12:10 PM
09/06/17 12:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
2015_PSD Offline OP
2015_PSD  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,594
Planet Earth
Originally Posted By: mbacfp
2015_PSD. How often does your truck regen? Mine does it exactly every 500 miles. My Blackstone UOAs have come back < 0.5%, but oil shears from a 40wt to a 30wt pretty quickly which makes me question Blackstone's fuel dilution numbers. Might try a different lab to confirm for myself. On the 6.7, does fuel dilution numbers come primarily from Regen frequency?
My regens are about the same interval (depends on driving conditions of course), and indeed, I believe that regens are the primary source of fuel dilution. I am using Polaris for UOAs (I also never trusted Blackstone's testing methods for dilution) and you can see my dilution rates on the post above.

Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4509219
09/06/17 03:17 PM
09/06/17 03:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 884
California
mbacfp Offline
mbacfp  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 884
California
My regens last a while too...10-15 minutes I would say. I monitor all the vitals on my Scanguage II. My only thought (not an expert) was your regens were happening more frequently during those high fuel dilution readings. Are your MPG numbers suffering? Hopefully someone else knows more.


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4517578
09/16/17 04:22 AM
09/16/17 04:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 693
Ont Canada
Koz1 Offline
Koz1  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 693
Ont Canada
If the only thing that changed was a failed MAF maybe the new one is not doing its job properly. Get them to check the voltages. It could be on the line with no code cause it isnt past the failure line. Could the O2 sensor been damaged when the MAF Failed?


Currently using, Fuchs TITAN GT1 PRO FLEX 5W-30, M1 5W-20 and Castrol Edge 0W-20 Gold B.
Re: Average Fuel Dilution? [Re: 2015_PSD] #4517594
09/16/17 05:09 AM
09/16/17 05:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 693
Ont Canada
Koz1 Offline
Koz1  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 693
Ont Canada
Or the EGR.


Currently using, Fuchs TITAN GT1 PRO FLEX 5W-30, M1 5W-20 and Castrol Edge 0W-20 Gold B.
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