Brake Hose Life

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Here in Florida, I see anything between 15-25 years. It seems that not all cars have brake hoses of equal quality. Some develop cracks that go into the fabric that holds the hose together, some fail where the metal is crimped to the rubber, and others develop a bulge before failing, and others fail by expanding when the fluid goes in, and trapping the fluid when the pedal is released. Unfortunately, it seems most hoses look okay, but burst while driving the car.

Most of the new brake hoses I have installed have come from China. The only exception was when I was given uRO brand hoses on a Benz. Those hoses came from Italy.

I would prefer to use OEM hoses or premium performance hoses on any car I owned, or my family owned.


Artificialist, please give examples of "premium performance" hoses. My factory hoses look perfect but I am just feeling like it is time to replace them. I have changed brake fluid every two years but I am not sure to what extent that extends hose life.

 

[Bamaro]

Mine lasted 40 years without any problem but recently replaced them while doing other work just in case.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
Mine lasted 40 years without any problem but recently replaced them while doing other work just in case.


Sweet! What kind of car? Didn't you have a hard time loosening the flare nut without destroying the tubing?

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Here in Florida, I see anything between 15-25 years. It seems that not all cars have brake hoses of equal quality. Some develop cracks that go into the fabric that holds the hose together, some fail where the metal is crimped to the rubber, and others develop a bulge before failing, and others fail by expanding when the fluid goes in, and trapping the fluid when the pedal is released. Unfortunately, it seems most hoses look okay, but burst while driving the car.

Most of the new brake hoses I have installed have come from China. The only exception was when I was given uRO brand hoses on a Benz. Those hoses came from Italy.

I would prefer to use OEM hoses or premium performance hoses on any car I owned, or my family owned.


Artificialist, please give examples of "premium performance" hoses. My factory hoses look perfect but I am just feeling like it is time to replace them. I have changed brake fluid every two years but I am not sure to what extent that extends hose life.

When I say premium hoses, I mean those ones that are made with stainless steel braids, or something other than black rubber.

Something like this: http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/earls-performance-speed-flex-brake-lines

 

[Gokhan]

Toyota rubber parts are of very high-quality. Mine are 29-year-old -- exactly twice as old as yours -- and I have no problem with them that I'm aware of. Toyota radiator hoses etc. last forever as well. The only ones I replaced were some vacuum hoses and fuel hoses that were damaged during removal. Also, when you replace them, use genuine Toyota parts.

I just did a front-brake overhaul by the way, rebuilding the calipers with OEM kit and replacing the rotors and pads with OEM parts (OEM pads only being sold by Bendix now). I had rebuilt the master cylinder with OEM kit several years ago. After bleeding the calipers, pedal is very hard and brakes work very well now.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Toyota rubber parts are of very high-quality. Mine are 29-year-old -- exactly twice as old as yours -- and I have no problem with them that I'm aware of. Toyota radiator hoses etc. last forever as well. The only ones I replaced were some vacuum hoses and fuel hoses that were damaged during removal. Also, when you replace them, use genuine Toyota parts.

I just did a front-brake overhaul by the way, rebuilding the calipers with OEM kit and replacing the rotors and pads with OEM parts (OEM pads only being sold by Bendix now). I had rebuilt the master cylinder with OEM kit several years ago. After bleeding the calipers, pedal is very hard and brakes work very well now.


My experience matches yours. I change my coolant every two years (Toyota factory red). Last year I replaced the by-pass hose because I was already in there replacing VC gaskets. The original hose looked brand new, inside and out.

Don't understand your comment re Bendix. Didn't know Bendix was an OEM supplier to Toyota. Thought only Akebono ProAct had OEM friction material on pads?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Toyota rubber parts are of very high-quality. Mine are 29-year-old -- exactly twice as old as yours -- and I have no problem with them that I'm aware of. Toyota radiator hoses etc. last forever as well. The only ones I replaced were some vacuum hoses and fuel hoses that were damaged during removal. Also, when you replace them, use genuine Toyota parts.

I just did a front-brake overhaul by the way, rebuilding the calipers with OEM kit and replacing the rotors and pads with OEM parts (OEM pads only being sold by Bendix now). I had rebuilt the master cylinder with OEM kit several years ago. After bleeding the calipers, pedal is very hard and brakes work very well now.


My experience matches yours. I change my coolant every two years (Toyota factory red). Last year I replaced the by-pass hose because I was already in there replacing VC gaskets. The original hose looked brand new, inside and out.

Don't understand your comment re Bendix. Didn't know Bendix was an OEM supplier to Toyota. Thought only Akebono ProAct had OEM friction material on pads?

Toyota radiator hoses seem to last forever indeed, even though I replaced them at one point just in case.

This is from Toyota's part database:

Code:
04491 PAD KIT, DISC BRAKE, FRONT (NOT AVAILABLE) 04491-12241 (IRRG) 1984.12-1986.02 AE82, CE80

Replaced by: 04465-12010

Manufacture notes:MARK BX(BENDIX)

So, Bendix is the OEM-pad-kit manufacturer for my Corolla.

I looked up the 1999 Avalon but it doesn't note the manufacturer. You can look it up here:

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Toyota rubber parts are of very high-quality. Mine are 29-year-old -- exactly twice as old as yours -- and I have no problem with them that I'm aware of. Toyota radiator hoses etc. last forever as well. The only ones I replaced were some vacuum hoses and fuel hoses that were damaged during removal. Also, when you replace them, use genuine Toyota parts.

I just did a front-brake overhaul by the way, rebuilding the calipers with OEM kit and replacing the rotors and pads with OEM parts (OEM pads only being sold by Bendix now). I had rebuilt the master cylinder with OEM kit several years ago. After bleeding the calipers, pedal is very hard and brakes work very well now.


My experience matches yours. I change my coolant every two years (Toyota factory red). Last year I replaced the by-pass hose because I was already in there replacing VC gaskets. The original hose looked brand new, inside and out.

Don't understand your comment re Bendix. Didn't know Bendix was an OEM supplier to Toyota. Thought only Akebono ProAct had OEM friction material on pads?

Toyota radiator hoses seem to last forever indeed, even though I replaced them at one point just in case.

This is from Toyota's part database:

Code:
04491 PAD KIT, DISC BRAKE, FRONT (NOT AVAILABLE) 04491-12241 (IRRG) 1984.12-1986.02 AE82, CE80

Replaced by: 04465-12010

Manufacture notes:MARK BX(BENDIX)

So, Bendix is the OEM-pad-kit manufacturer for my Corolla.

I looked up the 1999 Avalon but it doesn't note the manufacturer. You can look it up here:

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/


Me too but just upper, lower and main by-pass hoses. I have not yet replaced heater hoses or the two small hoses going to/from the IACV. Have you replaced heater and IACV hoses?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
Me too but just upper, lower and main by-pass hoses. I have not yet replaced heater hoses or the two small hoses going to/from the IACV. Have you replaced heater and IACV hoses?

I have a copper OEM heater core -- heavy-duty kind. Unfortunately it started leaking several years ago and I had to replace it with a new OEM heater core. I wonder if it leaked because I use Prestone Dex-Cool. I still don't know if there is a difference between Prestone All-Makes (greenish yellow) and Dex-Cool (orange) formulations. Replacing the heater core on my car is a nightmare. It took a very long time -- you need to dismantle so many things. In fact, ideally you need to remove the A/C pipes as well but I didn't do that as it would discharge the R-12 Freon.

Coming back to heater hoses, yes, I replaced them with OEM hoses when I replaced the heater core because some aftermarket hoses with a Prestone screw-on access cap in one of them were installed at some early age of the car, which I didn't like.

Bypass hoses are still original. I only replaced the top and bottom radiator hoses otherwise. I had to replace a stuck-open thermostat once. With the thermostat, definitely use an OEM one. I need to replace a leaky water-outlet gasket at some point when I feel like it.

By IACV hose, do you mean the vacuum hose that goes from the intake manifold to the hot-idle compensation valve (in my case inside the air cleaner)? I did replace that hose with an OEM hose once. I also replaced the the PCV hose with an OEM hose. For the other standard vacuum hoses, I buy bulk Toyota OEM vacuum hose and cut to specified length.

OEM bulk hoses are of very high quality, much more so than the aftermarket hoses. They also fit properly. Vacuum hose is cheap but the fuel hose is a little expensive:

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/parts/toyota-90999-92003_hose-vacuum.html

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/parts/toyota-95333-06100_hose-fuel.html

Note that not all vacuum hoses are of the standard size, for example the HIC/IACV and PCV hoses are of a different size. In fact, PCV hose is also molded into a special shape.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Me too but just upper, lower and main by-pass hoses. I have not yet replaced heater hoses or the two small hoses going to/from the IACV. Have you replaced heater and IACV hoses?

I have a copper OEM heater core -- heavy-duty kind. Unfortunately it started leaking several years ago and I had to replace it with a new OEM heater core. I wonder if it leaked because I use Prestone Dex-Cool. I still don't know if there is a difference between Prestone All-Makes (greenish yellow) and Dex-Cool (orange) formulations. Replacing the heater core on my car is a nightmare. It took a very long time -- you need to dismantle so many things. In fact, ideally you need to remove the A/C pipes as well but I didn't do that as it would discharge the R-12 Freon.

Coming back to heater hoses, yes, I replaced them with OEM hoses when I replaced the heater core because some aftermarket hoses with a Prestone screw-on access cap in one of them were installed at some early age of the car, which I didn't like.

Bypass hoses are still original. I only replaced the top and bottom radiator hoses otherwise. I had to replace a stuck-open thermostat once. With the thermostat, definitely use an OEM one. I need to replace a leaky water-outlet gasket at some point when I feel like it.

By IACV hose, do you mean the vacuum hose that goes from the intake manifold to the hot-idle compensation valve (in my case inside the air cleaner)? I did replace that hose with an OEM hose once. I also replaced the the PCV hose with an OEM hose. For the other standard vacuum hoses, I buy bulk Toyota OEM vacuum hose and cut to specified length.

OEM bulk hoses are of very high quality, much more so than the aftermarket hoses. They also fit properly. Vacuum hose is cheap but the fuel hose is a little expensive:

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/parts/toyota-90999-92003_hose-vacuum.html

http://www.toyomotorparts.com/parts/toyota-95333-06100_hose-fuel.html

Note that not all vacuum hoses are of the standard size, for example the HIC/IACV and PCV hoses are of a different size. In fact, PCV hose is also molded into a special shape.


Sorry, I meant throttle body, not IACV. My car has coolant flowing to/from the throttle body presumably to prevent icing. I believe they are called No 2 and No 3 by-pass hoses with No 1 by-pass hose being the 1" under the intake manifold.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
Sorry, I meant throttle body, not IACV. My car has coolant flowing to/from the throttle body presumably to prevent icing. I believe they are called No 2 and No 3 by-pass hoses with No 1 by-pass hose being the 1" under the intake manifold.

Refer to this link. They are listed for $5 and $10.

Click on "More Info" for the parts diagram.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Sorry, I meant throttle body, not IACV. My car has coolant flowing to/from the throttle body presumably to prevent icing. I believe they are called No 2 and No 3 by-pass hoses with No 1 by-pass hose being the 1" under the intake manifold.

Refer to this link. They are listed for $5 and $10.

Click on "More Info" for the parts diagram.


Thanks. Yes, I know their part numbers. I really wanted to know if you have replaced yours because they started to leak or you wanted to prevent a future leak.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
My Toyota Avalon is now 14 1/2 years old with 122k miles. Getting ready to do biennial brake fluid replacement and was wondering if I should replace brake hoses as a preventative measure. They look fine on the outside but they are like me...getting old! Thanks for your advice.


We just replaced ours on the 2000 Towncar when redoing the bottom side of the car from front to rear at 140K miles since it is for the kids to drive when they get licenses next month.

I like to do the front when doing a brake job after they get some age.

Had one fail on a BMW after a brake job where I walked up and say the calipers hanging on the hoses.

They fail on the inside and not the outside or at least in our case. The fluid could push out but the failed rubber line on the inside would prevent its return causing the brakes to drag and get hot.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Had one fail on a BMW after a brake job where I walked up and say the calipers hanging on the hoses.

Certainly, letting the calipers hang from the hoses is an easy way to damage the hoses.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Sorry, I meant throttle body, not IACV. My car has coolant flowing to/from the throttle body presumably to prevent icing. I believe they are called No 2 and No 3 by-pass hoses with No 1 by-pass hose being the 1" under the intake manifold.

Refer to this link. They are listed for $5 and $10.

Click on "More Info" for the parts diagram.

Thanks. Yes, I know their part numbers. I really wanted to know if you have replaced yours because they started to leak or you wanted to prevent a future leak.

You're welcome. I have a carbureted engine so there is no such cooling hose, as there is no throttle body. There is a large fiber hot-air-intake hose going to the air cleaner from the exhaust manifold to help when the inside of the air cleaner is too cold. I had replaced the OEM one for that long time ago because it was falling apart. The aftermarket one was of much higher quality.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Sorry, I meant throttle body, not IACV. My car has coolant flowing to/from the throttle body presumably to prevent icing. I believe they are called No 2 and No 3 by-pass hoses with No 1 by-pass hose being the 1" under the intake manifold.

Refer to this link. They are listed for $5 and $10.

Click on "More Info" for the parts diagram.

Thanks. Yes, I know their part numbers. I really wanted to know if you have replaced yours because they started to leak or you wanted to prevent a future leak.

You're welcome. I have a carbureted engine so there is no such cooling hose, as there is no throttle body. There is a large fiber hot-air-intake hose going to the air cleaner from the exhaust manifold to help when the inside of the air cleaner is too cold. I had replaced the OEM one for that long time ago because it was falling apart. The aftermarket one was of much higher quality.


Ah, a good ole fashioned carb! When I came back from overseas in 1984, I bought a brand new Cressida and Tercel. The Tercel had a carb and 5 spd manual trans. I loved that little car. I put a brand new factory carb on it sometime around 1995. Sold it with about 185k miles when it started to rust. The only big work it needed, besides carb, was a clutch throw-out bearing and struts. I remember dropping the trans. It was like working on a sewing machine.

 

[Gokhan]

Yup, they're good cars. Tercel's engine is just a little smaller version of Corolla's. I rebuilt the carburetor myself a few years back. Hardly anything goes bad in the Toyota carburetors if they are maintained properly. Bad gas or improperly maintained air filters could be a problem though. Also, some of the emission parts like some diaphragms tend to go bad and people and shops have a hard time diagnosing them.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Yup, they're good cars. Tercel's engine is just a little smaller version of Corolla's. I rebuilt the carburetor myself a few years back. Hardly anything goes bad in the Toyota carburetors if they are maintained properly. Bad gas or improperly maintained air filters could be a problem though. Also, some of the emission parts like some diaphragms tend to go bad and people and shops have a hard time diagnosing them.


Yep, my wife was driving the car and I did not have time to rebuild. Something was definitely not right in the accelerator pump. I got a great deal on a new one from my local dealer. I had more $$ than time back in those days. Took me only minutes to replace carb and it made a huge improvement.

 

[threeputtpar]

In addition to a good visual inspection, I've found that it's usually time to replace the flex lines when the car's braking system goes from feeling like you "threw out the anchor" to "I have to push with a second foot because the car is not stopping".

I change the fluid in the Audi every 3 years, and I've noticed that the last time I changed it, performance stayed the same. It used to feel like the car would squat down and something was pulling it to a stop when the brakes were applied, but now it feels like it's pushing it's way through the brakes and it takes much more pedal pressure to get it to stop. This indicates the fluid is pushing out on the rubber lines and not pushing on the caliper pistons.

I'll be replacing the front lines this summer.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
In addition to a good visual inspection, I've found that it's usually time to replace the flex lines when the car's braking system goes from feeling like you "threw out the anchor" to "I have to push with a second foot because the car is not stopping".

I change the fluid in the Audi every 3 years, and I've noticed that the last time I changed it, performance stayed the same. It used to feel like the car would squat down and something was pulling it to a stop when the brakes were applied, but now it feels like it's pushing it's way through the brakes and it takes much more pedal pressure to get it to stop. This indicates the fluid is pushing out on the rubber lines and not pushing on the caliper pistons.

I'll be replacing the front lines this summer.


I think your foot is much better calibrated than mine! The braking on my car feels great but I can't honestly say if it is about the same or worse than 5-10 years ago.