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Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: mikered30] #2894373
02/03/13 07:17 PM
02/03/13 07:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,851
California
Errtt Offline
Errtt  Offline

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,851
California
Originally Posted By: mikered30
Originally Posted By: dparm
Snake oil.


Technically it is very overpriced mineral oil.

Yeah mineral oil. Some food coloring appeal, fancy label and box, nice bottle, has to impact the cost but the wallet took the biggest impact - sure glad they don't run all them TV skits like they used to.
Nice gift for those you hate.

Last edited by Errtt; 02/03/13 07:19 PM.
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: electrolover] #2894803
02/04/13 06:28 AM
02/04/13 06:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,071
Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
skyship Offline
skyship  Offline

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,071
Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
OK so it must not be Z for Zinc, or the drug that is top of Google, but is this it:
Snake oil Z max
Never seen it for sale in the EU except on Fleabay.

Last edited by skyship; 02/04/13 06:29 AM.
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: tc1446] #2894804
02/04/13 06:30 AM
02/04/13 06:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,443
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,443
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: tc1446
Seems unusual that the FAA approved its use in aircraft motors where it has been used for a long time. Whether its beneficial or not, I have no idea, but I would believe that if it has had any harmful effect they would have come to light by now. I know a few pilots who have used it regularly.


Say what you want about it, I have personally seen some amazing pistons out of a Lycoming aircraft engine rebuilt at my BIL's shop. Truly clean pistons and rings like a 20k mile car engine in a motor with a couple thousand hours on it! The guy was an old pilot who used it in his planes.

Zmax actually prevailed in their FCC lawsuit, the product does some things very well despite the hoo-hah.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: SteveSRT8] #2894829
02/04/13 07:19 AM
02/04/13 07:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,071
Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
skyship Offline
skyship  Offline

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,071
Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
There is no comparison between an aero engine and a modern car one. Different compression ratios, fuel type, injection system and even ignition control. I wonder what the chances are that it was tested in all the different engine types to see if it worked and to check for long term damage to seals and bearings etc. Close to nil is my guess as it takes years and big bucks to test a new lubricant additive.

Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: shell_user] #2894908
02/04/13 09:00 AM
02/04/13 09:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,365
KC
badtlc Offline
badtlc  Offline

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,365
KC
Originally Posted By: shell_user
What is this Z MAX I hear so much about, and is it good? Any advice, thoughts and help is appreciated. My father was asking me about it.


Thank you in advance,

Adam


I haven't used it but they are the only additive I have seen that had to put up or shut up in a court of law and were able to put up enough to validate making their claims.


2007 Ford Escape XLS 2.3L ATX, M1 AFE 0W20, Fram TG, 167k
2015 Chrysler T&C, 87k+, M1 AFE 0W20, Fram TG OF
2018 Forester Premium 3k+, Factory 0W20, Factory OF
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: badtlc] #2894912
02/04/13 09:04 AM
02/04/13 09:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,783
Saskatoon canada
Clevy Offline
Clevy  Offline

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,783
Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: shell_user
What is this Z MAX I hear so much about, and is it good? Any advice, thoughts and help is appreciated. My father was asking me about it.


Thank you in advance,

Adam


I haven't used it but they are the only additive I have seen that had to put up or shut up in a court of law and were able to put up enough to validate making their claims.


Good point.
Now that I think about it I did use it once. I never saw any difference in fuel economy or how the car ran so I never bought it again.
Didn't Carroll Shelby endorse it? I think I saw a program where he stated he put in the sump of every car they build.
I may be mistaken though.


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: skyship] #2894977
02/04/13 09:56 AM
02/04/13 09:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,071
Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
skyship Offline
skyship  Offline

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,071
Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
This is part of the Z MAX web site I agree with:
Today, the wholesalers, distributors and counter people have to face Chemical Roulette: Engine, radiator and transmission flush products, friction-lowering engine additives, detergent and solvent chemicals that de-carbonize the engine along with fuel tank and injector cleaners; all to aid in better mileage. A lot of so-called problem solving additive products.

When the consumer approaches the automotive chemical isle, vertigo is easily experienced. Whatever sells the best gets front row position. Rarely does the question, does it work, come into play. Does the counter person know the quality of these products? In most cases the answer is, NO.

The counter person rarely knows the facts for 50 different products. Whichever product has the best advertising, the best sales force, the best shelf position, is the winner, regardless of whether or not the product really works.

Today's engine oils are excellent performers. Synthetics and engine oil packages such as GF-4 and now GF-5 API approved categories have almost eliminated the need for the use of aftermarket engine additives.

The rest is classic snake oil advertising!

Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: skyship] #2895013
02/04/13 10:26 AM
02/04/13 10:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,443
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,443
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: skyship
There is no comparison between an aero engine and a modern car one. Different compression ratios, fuel type, injection system and even ignition control. I wonder what the chances are that it was tested in all the different engine types to see if it worked and to check for long term damage to seals and bearings etc. Close to nil is my guess as it takes years and big bucks to test a new lubricant additive.


The exact same problems as a car only WORSE! Carbureted, no injection. Lousy weak ignition system with poor spark intensity. Air cooled with horrific hot spots based on airflow and power demands.

Every piston airplane engine I have seen apart on a bench (my FIL was a helicopter pilot and FAA licensed inspector) has had horrific carbon buildup and tons of coke in the rings and the heads.

With Avblend (Zmax in a different bottle-http://www.avblend.com/faa/faa.html) the difference is almost miraculous. So it does offer some very unique cleaning properties at the least.

The FAA did not approve snake oil, and would not ever do so.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: shell_user] #2895036
02/04/13 10:41 AM
02/04/13 10:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,081
Los Angeles, California
Durango Offline
Durango  Offline

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,081
Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: shell_user
What is this Z MAX I hear so much about, and is it good? Any advice, thoughts and help is appreciated. My father was asking me about it.


Thank you in advance,

Adam


Adam,

Be careful of these products. Check out the FTC's website about this Z- MAX stuff before you buy it.

Durango

Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: shell_user] #2895079
02/04/13 11:09 AM
02/04/13 11:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,971
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
JHZR2  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,971
New Jersey
Read the really long thread started by Johnny. He had been using this stuff in one form or another since the mid 1940s, and it is a widely used aircraft additive with FAA approval.

It is indeed highly refined pharmaceutical grade mineral oil. They do a chemical recombination on it to make the molecules all the same shape and form, and claim it better impregnates into the voids and pores of metals in the engine.

There may be something to that theory, but volitility if really small molecules, and practical assessment of this being a valid effect are highly questionable. They did a bunch of fancy sounding tests, but they dont appear conclusive to me. Still it may be a useful solvent with some lubricity, and aircraft results seem to indicate that it does something...

Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: SteveSRT8] #2895252
02/04/13 01:53 PM
02/04/13 01:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,742
Northern California, USA
Loobed Offline
Loobed  Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,742
Northern California, USA
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


The FAA did not approve snake oil, and would not ever do so.


That depends on how you define snake oil.

The only thing the FAA does is make sure it does NOT HARM the engine. The do not check to see if it benefits the engine.

If I re-bottle SN 5w-30 oil, call it "super double-duper oil", and charge $50 a quart, it can be considered snake oil even though it is regular 5w-30.


Engine: 2001 GM 5.3L LM7
Current Fill: Valvoline Synpower 5w-30 w/Pure-One PL25288 filter

I.M.N Oil Enthusiast
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: shell_user] #2895269
02/04/13 02:07 PM
02/04/13 02:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,443
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,443
Sunny Florida
You get to call it whatever you want.

I am not a user, but I HAVE seen direct evidence on more than one engine of its efficacy with regards to cleaning pistons and ring packs.

It is no different than group III "synthetic" oil. Highly re-refined mineral oil that behaves very differently than the general public has been taught.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: shell_user] #2895349
02/04/13 03:05 PM
02/04/13 03:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 830
ottawa
nicholas Offline
nicholas  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 830
ottawa
I thought Cadillac was recommending Z-max in an official TSB for carbon removal in their northstar engines.

I will try and find it. I think most people pass it off for snake oil.


2019 2.0T Santa Fe
2010 3.5 Santa Fe
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: shell_user] #2895392
02/04/13 03:47 PM
02/04/13 03:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,073
moutain country
boxcartommie22 Offline
boxcartommie22  Offline

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,073
moutain country
oh no here we go again!!!


2001 Lincoln Conti,RL,K&N,Hotshots,Lubegard,Archoil
2007 Grand Marquis,RL,K&N,Hotshots,Lubegard,Archoil
2010 Raptor,RL,Hotshots,Lubegard,Archoil
Re: What is Z-MAX? [Re: shell_user] #2895394
02/04/13 03:47 PM
02/04/13 03:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,556
Plano, TX
dparm Offline
dparm  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,556
Plano, TX
Nicholas, I wouldn't assume ZMAX works just because of that. All of the factory fill or service fill fluids are chosen based on the highest bidder...


2017 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport
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