Amsoil OE 5w30 - 5,000 - 1998 Toyota Camry V6

[Artem]

Well, i honestly expected a much worse report considering the potentially catastrophic engine failure that happened just 400 miles ago...

THE STORY; (long read but bare with me, I only included the important stuff.)

The aftermarket water pump impeller completely broke off and then broke down into several small pieces. This didn't pump the coolant through the system AT ALL, thus causing the engine to overheat a good dozen times if not more before the problem was diagnosed and repaired. Thankfully though, the daily commute that the car sees is only 5-6 miles one way and although the needle was touching RED, water boiling and steam coming out from under the hood, it wasn't enough to completely boil things over. (My mother was driving the car and didn't notice anything wrong until she tried to use the heater and only cold air was coming out, since the hot coolant wasn't being pushed into the AC system)

I found pieces of the impeller lodged all over the cooling system. Had to disassemble and completely clean almost everything from the water pump up the other side of the engine with the hose coming from the radiator until i gathered all the pieces of the impeller and was certain that nothing was left in the system, blocking the coolant path and causing problem right after "the fix".

The timing belt and water pump were first replaced when the car had 90,000 miles on it. The aftermarket water pump failed after 110,000 miles. I over pushed it, i know.

I also found an intake hose, right next to the throttle body, after the filter, had ripped and a big hole was now allowing dirt to be sucked in. This part of the intake system was completely replaced with new tubing as the rest of the 14 year rubber in the intake system was just about to crumble apart as well.

As a result of all this, i expected that a lot of dirt could have gotten into the engine but i guess the intake coupler had broke during the engine overheating and didn't have a chance to allow much dirt to be sucked in.

I pulled this sample because i literally pulled into the driveway after a trip and saw the even digits on the ODO and thought it was a PERFECT time to pull a sample.

This was about 400 miles after the fix, to allow plenty of run time for the engine to determine if the overheating caused any longevity problems with the engine, like a damaged head gasket or damaged engine internals because of the excess heat. I'm glad that from the looks of it, the engine handled this rather well. I'll continue to monitor for signs of the inevitable and will get rid of the car quickly when that time comes, until then... the wheels will keep turning.

The oil is still in use and i'll probably put on a few more thousand on it before sampling again to see how it's doing.

On to the report.

A Mobil 1 oil filter was used, errr, i mean, is still being used.

An Amsoil Ea air filter was installed just before the start of this run. I have plans to use the air filter for the life of the car... what's left of it anyway.

I also did an Amsoil Engine Flush for 15 minutes during the last OC. Will also do the flush during this OC. That will be the 3rd time in a row, 5,000 miles apart that the flush is being used. I plan to pull the front valve cover again to compare before / after pics of the internals to determine if the flush is cleaning things up or not. Will make a thread about it when that time comes. Shouldn't be much longer.

Thoughts and comments are anticipated

 

[Turk]

Wow, the engine got stressed out & the oil didn't show much of anything. Good write up & worth reading. Good job, Amsoil.

How long do you plan on keeping this engine/car? Till it dies or sooner?

 

[Artem]

I honestly thought this report would show major engine damage and was planning to quickly sell the car if that was the case.

Since its not and the engine didn't suffer much (it was overheating at idle while we tried to figure out why the AC isn't blowing hot air at first.) Lol. Then thought it was a bad thermostat. Replaced it, still overheating. Eventually finding the pieces of the impelled while draining the coolant during disassembly.

Plan to keep using the car as a daily beater and long highway business trips. Will upgrade to something newer and more economical by next year. Will probably have 250k on it by the time I sell it. Hopefully still running as good as if does today.

I'm surprised that expect for a few ppm higher wear metals, there's literally no signs of the overheating.

 

[zyxelenator]

Looks nice considering damage it took.

 

[zyxelenator]

Did you do timing belt this time? As I remember it's every 90k miles on those engines?

 

[Artem]

I actually inspected the belt after 100k of use over like 4-5 years and found it to be in good condition and not in need of changing. Very minor oil seep-edge was found from the crank and camshafts seals so I decided to run it longer. Everything would have been fine if the water pump hadn't failed, almost killing the engine.

I could have squeezed another 25k outta the belt safely. I guess that's why they recommend the 90k interval. Hahaha.

Yes the timing belt and components were done at the same time. Everything had 110,000 miles on it and looked good, minus the water pump.

 

[Artem]

I want to point out that the aftermarket water pump impelled was plastic. The original OEM Toyota impelled blade was solid metal. The new OEM water power had a plastic impelled but felt a lot harder then 2 other aftermarket ones I examined and was rotating a lot easier. I guess Toyota redesigned them to be lighter so perhaps cause less drag and improve MPGs. I went with the OEM pump at the end of the day after getting a good deal on it from the parts guy who hooked me up.

 

[zyxelenator]

Do you remember which brand it was? GMB or Aisin? Aisin full timing kit is $10-20 more expensive. Aisin made in Japan or Thailand, GMB- China. I found NPW not full kit link which is more expensive, but most parts Japan made. Not sure is NPW fully metal made, hard to tell by picture. Also found Bosch water pump which is metal made impellers for sure(jugging by picture.
What would you recommend? Buy cheaper non China kit with plastic, or gather own kit with US/Japan/Germany parts and metal parts.

I heard that metal impellers wear out bearing faster and need little more power to spin it. Plastic ones are lighter but brake into pieces like yours.
Anyone input will be appreciated. I will need to go thru that in 30k miles, work will be done by certified mechanic buddy.(currently Chevy dealership).

 

[Artem]

Either the GMB or Aisin pump was literally, identical to the one i bought from Toyota themselves. It even had the Toyota stamp on the pump and the parts guy at the store - "Eastern Imports" told me that it's the same one that Toyota gets from them as an OEM replacement. Since i got a good deal at Toyota themselves, along with the belt and seals, i ended up getting it at the stealership.

Personally, if i had to do it again, i'd go with the OEM plastic type. If you don't exceed the recommended change interval, there shouldn't be any problems. If it helps to get you better MPGs because it's lighter and is easier to spin, it will pay for itself in gas savings by the time it needs replacing again. At this mileage and age, i doubt neither me or you will still own the car in another 100,000 miles. It'll be at the junk yard.

I say, don't really look at the price, get the good pump at it's not something you wanna skimp on. If it ends up having the plastic blade, i think it's a good thing. I looked up the one for my 06 Scion tC and it was also plastic (The Toyota OEM one)

 

[zyxelenator]

Thanks, it is then Aisin, they are Toyota supplier today.

 

[Artem]

I say, good choice. IMO, nothing beats OEM quality... unless it's a MUCH more expensive part.

 

[ltslimjim]

I can get an Aisin for $40 shipped from RA for the VX, while the cheapest are around $20. I'd go for it, what's $20 over 60,000 miles even at a shorter belt servicing interval?

 

[zyxelenator]

I know, not a biggy, 11 piece timing kit for my car is around $170. I thought it will be more expensive. But I'll need to pay for labor, never done it, and don't really want to mess with it. I prefer chains.

 

[ltslimjim]

^Most 'independent' shops will charge about $300 labor, depending, around my area anyway.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Artem
I say, good choice. IMO, nothing beats OEM quality... unless it's a MUCH more expensive part.

I'm finding as you did using aftermarket on a Toyota can be extremely costly. Assumption is the China syndrome. Why was the factory water pump replaced originally?

 

[wolfc70]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: Artem
I say, good choice. IMO, nothing beats OEM quality... unless it's a MUCH more expensive part.

I'm finding as you did using aftermarket on a Toyota can be extremely costly. Assumption is the China syndrome. Why was the factory water pump replaced originally?


You change the water pump when you do the timing belt. Since you have to usually remove the timing belt to get to the pump, and since many water pumps are driven by the timing belts, you just change it out when you have everything taken apart.

On my previous vehicle (2003 Saturn L300 V6) the water pump was an additional $40. Since the timing belt job was 5 hrs labor, spending an additional $40 was a no brainer. Never, ever, EVER! Cheap out on timing belt kits! A buddy of mine did that on his Passat. A idler pulley bearing failed within 10k miles. He ended up bending a bunch of valves, and trying to find a machine shop to work on the Audi/VW 5 valve heads was tough, and expensive.

 

[Artem]

Yea almost every car manufacturer recommends you change the water pump at the same interval that you change the timing belt at. Basically every 100k miles.

 

[LeakySeals]

Of course mechanics will say "you should change the water pump too", same way the say "you need front brakes" when they rotate your tires. Money, no other reason. I understand the need for the timing belt, but think water pump falls under faux problem, and in this case "you should change the water pump too" CAUSED the problem.

 

[Artem]

So you're saying that if i'd left original pump in place during the very first timing belt change @ like 100,000 miles if i remember correctly that after 14 years and 213,000 miles all will be well with it?

Toyota recommends a water pump change during the T-belt service.
Honda recommends the same thing.
Every car i've done a T-belt on, the kit would come with a water pump.

My uncle who's been working on cars for close to 30 years now says the same thing and always replaces the water pump.

I've never heard of leaving it in there because it's one of those things that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Look what happened with my water pump after 110,000 miles of use. This wasn't no cheap pump either. When i originally did the timing belt, i used good quality parts.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Artem
So you're saying that if i'd left original pump in place during the very first timing belt change @ like 100,000 miles if i remember correctly that after 14 years and 213,000 miles all will be well with it?

Toyota recommends a water pump change during the T-belt service.
Honda recommends the same thing.
Every car i've done a T-belt on, the kit would come with a water pump.

My uncle who's been working on cars for close to 30 years now says the same thing and always replaces the water pump.

I've never heard of leaving it in there because it's one of those things that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Look what happened with my water pump after 110,000 miles of use. This wasn't no cheap pump either. When i originally did the timing belt, i used good quality parts.


No, I'm not challenging or criticizing what you did at all. An aftermarket water pump with plastic impellers was introduced, almost destroyed the engine, and there was nothing wrong with the original water pump. All I was discussing.