2014 Lincoln Navigator 5.4 V8 ~150kmi, 5000mi UOA AMSOIL 5w-20, TBN depletion?

[Panda87]

Hey all,
Longtime lurker, first post. For background, this is a 2014 Lincoln Navigator L 4x4 with a 5.4l V8 that I purchased a year ago from a dealership in Indiana, I live in North Alabama. It was purchased with 139k miles on the clock. Runs great and we use it to pull our camper which scales at 7300lbs loaded.

I’ve gone over the vehicle with a fine toothed comb and switched all fluids to Amsoil that could be. Both diffs, transfer case, transmission got a new filter and a 3x drain and fill, power steering, engine oil, brake fluid. Also performed a full suspension and brake system refresh along with new plugs, coils, air intake, coolant flush, new tires, etc.

I assumed the engine had gotten whatever bulk dealership/quick lube oil at OLM intervals for its entire life and wanted to start fresh. Used Amsoil Engine and Transmission Flush for 15 minutes and drained the old oil and replaced with Amsoil 5w-20 as spec’d at 145k miles and performed the UOA at 150k just to see where I was at. Ford manual recommends 5k OCI when towing also.

Towed from Huntsville to Tampa and back this past summer, so that is part of the 5k mileage on this UOA. My concern is the iron level of the UOA and the rapid depletion of the TBN in 5k miles. I’m not sure if remnants of the flush, the towing in 100 degree FL weather, or a combination of factors led to this. Only during towing did it suck down some oil, it hasn’t lost a drop except during that trip. It consumed 1 quart down to Tampa and 1 quart back up. PCV system doesn’t use a valve and has two hoses that connect from each valve cover to each side of the intake.

I took a pic of the inside of the oil fill port (the neck is long, sorry for the poor picture) and it looks like there is some significant deposit formation inside.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!!!

Panda

 

[JavierH19]

That's pretty low at just 5k miles, Iron is also high for a 5.4. Switch to a 0/5w-40 and change normally. No it won't have any issues with thicker oil. I use 5w-40 in my 2021 escalade still under both warranties, change about every 7k.

 

[Panda87]

That's pretty low at just 5k miles, Iron is also high for a 5.4. Switch to a 0/5w-40 and change normally. No it won't have any issues with thicker oil. I use 5w-40 in my 2021 escalade still under both warranties, change about every 7k.

Thanks Javier. I was considering a switch to the 0w-40 to give myself the good cold engine flow needed for these 5.4s and also ensure that I’m not doing any damage when towing in high heat conditions.

I’m keeping my ears open for the infamous 3v cam phaser and VVT solenoid failure noises. I hear occasional rattling for 1/4 second upon a cold morning start, but it’s intermittent and only on cold mornings. I’d like to stave off a timing system replacement until 200k if possible.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Hard to say without a baseline and the unknown maintenance history. Ambient temps aren't an issue and TBN isn't as relevant today with ultra-low sulphur gasoline. Is this engine a shedder?

I would sample again at 5k and then see.

 

[JavierH19]

Thanks Javier. I was considering a switch to the 0w-40 to give myself the good cold engine flow needed for these 5.4s and also ensure that I’m not doing any damage when towing in high heat conditions.

I’m keeping my ears open for the infamous 3v cam phaser and VVT solenoid failure noises. I hear occasional rattling for 1/4 second upon a cold morning start, but it’s intermittent and only on cold mornings. I’d like to stave off a timing system replacement until 200k if possible.

The revised 5.4 should be mostly trouble free though thicker oil does help these anyway. I used 40 and 50 grade in my 5.4 instead of 5w-20, never trusted it back then and in other countries with the same engine but with thicker oil had less issues. I'm just using off the wally shelf Quaker state 5w-40, anything with stringent euro certifications is gonna be good.

 

[Panda87]

Hard to say without a baseline and the unknown maintenance history. Ambient temps aren't an issue and TBN isn't as relevant today with ultra-low sulphur gasoline. Is this engine a shedder?

I would sample again at 5k and then see.

Thanks Turbo. I’m not aware of these being iron shedders, but I don’t have a track history to know for sure yet.

I ordered a 4 pack of oil analysis kits. I ran a 5k interval with little towing on PP 5w-20 and a Mobil 1 M1-110A filter but didn’t send that one in. Now running PPHM 5w-20 with a quart of HPL EC 30 in it running a Purolator Boss filter. Will swap it out with a Fram Ultra at 2500 miles and do a full filter and OCI at the 160k mark which will be done with HPL PCMO 5w-20 and analyzed every 2500 or 5k depending on BITOG consensus.

As mentioned to Javier, I may switch to HPL 0w-40 after I use up my 5w-20 stock.

 

[Panda87]

The revised 5.4 should be mostly trouble free though thicker oil does help these anyway. I used 40 and 50 grade in my 5.4 instead of 5w-20, never trusted it back then and in other countries with the same engine but with thicker oil had less issues. I'm just using off the wally shelf Quaker state 5w-40, anything with stringent euro certifications is gonna be good.

Good to hear! I’d read that other countries using the 5.4 spec’d 5w-30 and 5w-40 as opposed to US being 5w-20. I’d like to keep this old girl as long as I can. When the engine finally nukes itself, I’m keeping it, swapping in a reman and buying an F-350 for towing duty and upgrading to a 5th wheel toy hauler for my motorcycles. The gator will be relegated to in town/regional kid hauling duty.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Down that oil spout, it looks like the engine did not receive the best of treatment in the past. Perhaps the oil flush you performed loosened some of that carbon/dirt/varnish coating and maybe it is slowly releasing wear metals that it was holding on to. Regular oil changes and future UOA should tell the story. Nothing to worry about at this time.

 

[Panda87]

Down that oil spout, it looks like the engine did not receive the best of treatment in the past. Perhaps the oil flush you performed loosened some of that carbon/dirt/varnish coating and maybe it is slowly releasing wear metals that it was holding on to. Regular oil changes and future UOA should tell the story. Nothing to worry about at this time.

I had kicked the idea around that knocking some of that crud into suspension was elevating the iron levels and beating up the TBN, but it’s speculation on my part for sure. I’m considering opening the valve covers, but they are a bit of a pain on this engine and it wouldn’t be for much more than taking pics and possibly performing an “open oil pan drain plug” top down engine/valvetrain cleaning and flush. Part of me worries about all the crud not making it out of that Fumoto valve I’ve got in the pan though.

I’ll start reporting at minimum every 5k to see what’s up for sure. Thanks man.

 

[FZ1]

Hey all,
Longtime lurker, first post. For background, this is a 2014 Lincoln Navigator L 4x4 with a 5.4l V8 that I purchased a year ago from a dealership in Indiana, I live in North Alabama. It was purchased with 139k miles on the clock. Runs great and we use it to pull our camper which scales at 7300lbs loaded.

I’ve gone over the vehicle with a fine toothed comb and switched all fluids to Amsoil that could be. Both diffs, transfer case, transmission got a new filter and a 3x drain and fill, power steering, engine oil, brake fluid. Also performed a full suspension and brake system refresh along with new plugs, coils, air intake, coolant flush, new tires, etc.

I assumed the engine had gotten whatever bulk dealership/quick lube oil at OLM intervals for its entire life and wanted to start fresh. Used Amsoil Engine and Transmission Flush for 15 minutes and drained the old oil and replaced with Amsoil 5w-20 as spec’d at 145k miles and performed the UOA at 150k just to see where I was at. Ford manual recommends 5k OCI when towing also.

Towed from Huntsville to Tampa and back this past summer, so that is part of the 5k mileage on this UOA. My concern is the iron level of the UOA and the rapid depletion of the TBN in 5k miles. I’m not sure if remnants of the flush, the towing in 100 degree FL weather, or a combination of factors led to this. Only during towing did it suck down some oil, it hasn’t lost a drop except during that trip. It consumed 1 quart down to Tampa and 1 quart back up. PCV system doesn’t use a valve and has two hoses that connect from each valve cover to each side of the intake.

I took a pic of the inside of the oil fill port (the neck is long, sorry for the poor picture) and it looks like there is some significant deposit formation inside.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!!!

Panda

Looks ok. Use a 5,000 OCI. You could try a 5w30.

 

[Panda87]

Looks ok. Use a 5,000 OCI. You could try a 5w30.

Thanks FZ1. This one was a 5k OCI. I plan on sticking to 5k OCIs until this clears up, or into perpetuity if it doesn’t. A viscosity increase is planned after this upcoming run with HPL PCMO 5w-20. I should talk to Dave about it and get his recommendation, given this analysis and frequent 85% of max towing.

 

[thastinger]

7800Lbs works that engine pretty hard, not the place for 0-20 oil IMHO. I'm assuming you tow that with OD off.

I often run Mobil 1 0-40 Euro formula in my 5.4 F150 and the UOAs look good, mine is just a 2V though.

 

[Panda87]

7800Lbs works that engine pretty hard, not the place for 0-20 oil IMHO. I'm assuming you tow that with OD off.

I often run Mobil 1 0-40 Euro formula in my 5.4 F150 and the UOAs look good, mine is just a 2V though.

I definitely pull using “tow/haul” mode which locks out the OD and changes transmission shift points and utilizes downshifting on grades. I monitor trans and coolant temps via ScanGauge 2. Transmission stays around 204 with great consistency, though it did start climbing to about 214 or so on Hwy 98 in FL headed south and I had to slow to about 55 or so due to a massive headwind and it wanting to wind out above 3k rpm to push into it. Coolant stayed around 190ish regardless of work being done.

Do you do any towing with your F-150? Would be all ears to your experience doing so with the 0w-40!

 

[Crusher]

Panda87
I agree with FZ1
Switch to a 5W-30 and keep the 5k oci
I have this exact 5.4L 3v motor on my 2011 King Ranch Expedition EL in my Signature with 365k miles
The TBN is a little puzzling. The very 1st UOA I did on my Expedition @25k miles had a similar TBN at 2.07
Thanks for Sharing, and Good Luck
I look forward to your future posts

 

[Panda87]

Panda87
I agree with FZ1
Switch to a 5W-30 and keep the 5k oci
I have this exact 5.4L 3v motor on my 2011 King Ranch Expedition EL in my Signature with 365k miles
The TBN is a little puzzling. The very 1st UOA I did on my Expedition @25k miles had a similar TBN at 2.07
Thanks for Sharing, and Good Luck
I look forward to your future posts

Hey Crusher! Thanks for sharing the similar experience. I’ll go look through your post history for your UOAs and check it out. What oil did you use on that first UOA and what oil has your Expy lived on for most of its life?

 

[Panda87]

Panda87
I agree with FZ1
Switch to a 5W-30 and keep the 5k oci
I have this exact 5.4L 3v motor on my 2011 King Ranch Expedition EL in my Signature with 365k miles
The TBN is a little puzzling. The very 1st UOA I did on my Expedition @25k miles had a similar TBN at 2.07
Thanks for Sharing, and Good Luck
I look forward to your future posts

Those UOAs with the Dual Bypass system are impressive! Are you still running 5w-20 as evidenced in your UOAs or did you switch over to 5w-30? When looking at your UOAs, it would appear that the iron levels were highest at the beginning and trailed off as time went on. Wonder why that is? Really cool data!

 

[fantastic]

Once upon a time these were spec'd for at least 5w-30 but then Ford says 5w-20 fine...Yeah uh ha. 10w-30 or 10w-40 or 5w-40 would be what I'd run since your towing & minimize oil burn off.

 

[thastinger]

I definitely pull using “tow/haul” mode which locks out the OD and changes transmission shift points and utilizes downshifting on grades. I monitor trans and coolant temps via ScanGauge 2. Transmission stays around 204 with great consistency, though it did start climbing to about 214 or so on Hwy 98 in FL headed south and I had to slow to about 55 or so due to a massive headwind and it wanting to wind out above 3k rpm to push into it. Coolant stayed around 190ish regardless of work being done.

Do you do any towing with your F-150? Would be all ears to your experience doing so with the 0w-40!

Yeah, we have a toy hauler that is about 7K when loaded and tanks are full, a boat that is 5500 with the trailer and I sometimes race the truck (it has a Whipple 2.9 supercharger on it). I always run either the M1 E0-40 or Royal Purple HPS 5-30 in it, whichever I have on hand.

Your tranny temps are higher than I would want. I believe you transmission has an internal 170 degree thermostat so it'll try to stay around that temp, do you have an aftermarket tranny cooler or a tranny cooler at all?

 

[panthermike]

I had one of these motors in a 2010 F150 which unfortunately only made it to 106K. But then you have examples like Crushers which is great! My brother gifted his '07 to his daughter which is at 200K+ and doing fine. I agree with 5w30/0w40 and frequent changes, especially while cleaning it up a bit. Hopefully the HPL EC will help a bit to.

 

[The Critic]

A lot of recent formulations are using additive packages with lower SA levels and as a result, TBN's will start lower and stay lower during the duration of a drain. There is also increasing agreement that TBN levels should not be the focal point (as they once were) since they carry less relevance in the modern era of lower Sulphur fuels.

https://www.chevronlubricants.com/content/dam/external/industrial/en_us/sales-material/sales-sheet/ENGINE%20OIL%20ANALYSIS%20UNDERSTANDING%20TAN%20AND%20TBN%2001-28-2019.pdf