Recent Topics
Octagonal cross section .060 string trimmer line ?
by LoneRanger
06/25/17 10:24 AM
Is Schlotzskys Deli out of business?
by gman2304
06/25/17 10:21 AM
Oil costs and recommened OCIs?
by fdcg27
06/25/17 09:28 AM
55gallons of m1
by NStuart
06/25/17 08:29 AM
Engine Oil , please need assistance !!!
by rsolo
06/25/17 08:16 AM
0W-20 or 5W-20 for 06 Sentra in NYC winter
by MoneyJohn
06/25/17 05:36 AM
M1 0-40, 3.395K, 2006 WRX STI
by chado_skins
06/25/17 04:57 AM
Are my ignition wires out of spec in ohms?
by ziggy
06/25/17 03:21 AM
Nano Energizer additive
by Fadi
06/25/17 01:48 AM
Best value 15w40 for 5kW Army generator
by beavis87
06/24/17 11:48 PM
Staggered Tire Setup in RWD
by FlyPenFly
06/24/17 11:38 PM
Sticky oil
by zerosoma
06/24/17 11:20 PM
Should I change my oil?
by Greatwhite7
06/24/17 11:11 PM
Popping while turning right?
by beavis87
06/24/17 10:55 PM
Should I add this green Lubegard?
by beavis87
06/24/17 10:50 PM
Pentofrost E. 5 quarts.
by Vlad_the_Russian
06/24/17 10:48 PM
Dodge Charger Rental car review
by gregk24
06/24/17 10:09 PM
Opinions Please about Delo 400 XLE Synblend 10W30
by Pas_Bon
06/24/17 09:51 PM
natural gas generator
by mobilaltima
06/24/17 09:07 PM
Delo 400 xle in a 5.4 3v Ford Triton??
by 2012AccentSE
06/24/17 08:51 PM
Newest Members
SDANGERS, V_A, tapper1, carpetguy, stangdude
61961 Registered Users
Who's Online
81 registered (Astro14, Backwoods41695, bdcardinal, 92saturnsl2, Bamaro, 8 invisible), 2368 Guests and 28 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
61961 Members
66 Forums
267019 Topics
4416046 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#2258202 - 05/11/11 07:34 PM Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 726
Loc: Herndon, VA
Here's a VOA of another Mobil 1 SN rated product - this time it's Mobil 1 5W-30 EP SN. Note that the additive package has changed, but very similar to Mobil 1 0W-20 SN, in that it uses a combination of Calcium and Magnesium for detergent additives. I am also shocked at the high TAN! TBN also lower than previous Mobil 1 5W-30 EP. For comparison purposes, see the link to the recent Mobil 1 0W-20 SN here. Enjoy!


Top
#2258215 - 05/11/11 07:40 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30295
Loc: NJ
Thanks for sharing this. Confirms the 0w20 was right. I'll be curious to see what Ultra and Amsoil look like. Using more Mg and less Calcium reduces the sulfated ash per Tbn level.

_________________________


Top
#2258241 - 05/11/11 08:09 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 4683
Loc: Florida
^I'm getting ready to send off a Virgin sample of Amsoil's new AZO 0w30

Anyone know if there's a VOA of SSO using B_S labs?

BTW, thanks for posting the report, btanchors.
_________________________
2015 Lexus ES300H with all the goodies - Dealer Fill

2014 Mazda 3 Hatch i Touring 2.0L & 6spd - Castrol 5w30 for summer

Top
#2258343 - 05/11/11 09:26 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
JasonBraswell Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 122
Loc: Mckinney, TX
Man I sure do not understand what all this hype about the "SN" oil is all about. Every VOA seems to show less additives, which seems like we are being sold less robust oil. Can somebody explain this confusion?


*I'm glad I have a 5qt jug of fresh "SM" EP in my garage.
_________________________
99 Toyota LandCruiser OEM Filter(90915-20004) M1 HM 5w-30
06 Lexus LS 430 OEM Filter(90915-20004) M1 AFE 0w-30

Top
#2258476 - 05/12/11 12:31 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
ltslimjim Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 5505
Loc: WatUpDoc
I tend to wonder too, if the product quality drops enough after UOAs and wear metal comparisons etc. I hope Amsoil's SSO lineup didn't nose dive. Get that VOA back please, Artem! :thumbsups: grin2

drive
_________________________
92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup

Top
#2258524 - 05/12/11 03:35 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
gib Offline


Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 164
Loc: A Tropical Isle
Huh. Kind of surprising to see a member of the EP product line have a TBN under 10. We'll see how it performs in extended use soon enough, hopefully.

Thanks for having this VOA done!

Top
#2258683 - 05/12/11 09:04 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 14065
Loc: Canada
Its very, very simple what is happening.

Mg is a lot less expensive as a detergent than Ca-based detergents. Makes the add-pack less expensive.

As long as you have a TBN above 9, most oils will do 10-12k with ease - they assume once you get into the 14-15k range, you've had to top-off some oil, and refresh it.

Thanks for posting this!
_________________________
2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 105k miles.
VWB 10W-30; OEM Kia filter.

Top
#2258782 - 05/12/11 11:19 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30295
Loc: NJ
I don't think it's that simple. They are reducing the SA. Mobil 1, like other advanced oils are a complex cocktail of many additives and base oils, many of which don't show up via VOA.
_________________________


Top
#2258785 - 05/12/11 11:21 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30295
Loc: NJ
Cheapening is a poor word to use. I would suspect that these new formulations are better, not worse. Oils generally get better over time, not worse.
_________________________


Top
#2258788 - 05/12/11 11:23 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30295
Loc: NJ
Time will tell if the TBN retention is up to par vs the initial higher TBN of years passed. Ca is on the way out.
_________________________


Top
#2259613 - 05/13/11 01:11 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
ltslimjim Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 5505
Loc: WatUpDoc
I agree with some of what addguy and buster are communicating...btw, by wear metals in reality I mean actual wear not necessarily what a UOA may/may not be 'indicating'.

I question and I ponder, but I still have general faith in the product lineups, but will scrutinize. Hopefully, this 'thing' that is being under review will get a better eye to review it. I'm still learning and it's still all guess work in a lot of areas anyway, at least from my end. laugh
_________________________
92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
07 Honda Fit Sport (A/T) WELCOME thumbsup

Top
#2260688 - 05/14/11 08:50 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30295
Loc: NJ
On paper, this oil obviously looks weak compared to past formulations, but additives change and improve. Many are just not showing up in these VOA's. Pennzoil and Amsoil are using 200ppm of boron and 3000ppm of calcium. That is an additive package that's been used for the last 5 years in many different oils. Assuming it's the same type of boron, which it may not be. Calcium probably is.

UOA's will be the judge.
_________________________


Top
#2261011 - 05/14/11 03:43 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
JasonBraswell Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 122
Loc: Mckinney, TX
If you look at the new PDS M1 EP PDS , it's evident they are thinning out the oils to meet GF-5 fuel economy requirements with lower HTHS and viscosity. This oil is now thinner than the 0w-30.
Based on the UOA they are reducing additives also. Thinner oil with less additives seems to = a less quality oil, but I ain't no expert popcorn
_________________________
99 Toyota LandCruiser OEM Filter(90915-20004) M1 HM 5w-30
06 Lexus LS 430 OEM Filter(90915-20004) M1 AFE 0w-30

Top
#2261347 - 05/14/11 11:03 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 12397
Loc: Illinois
Have you noticed EP oils are still warranteed for 15K by XM? Outside of running the oil for 200K and more, there is no way of knowing how the oil will perform in the engine.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 209,000 miles
M1 0-20 AFE
2017 Ford Fusion 27K
M1 0-20 AFE
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


Top
#2261993 - 05/15/11 06:43 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 18046
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Quote:
Man I sure do not understand what all this hype about the "SN" oil is all about. Every VOA seems to show less additives, which seems like we are being sold less robust oil. Can somebody explain this confusion?



There is more than "meets the eye" in these new formulations and robustness has nothing to do with the lack of metallic-based additives.

What you are NOT seeing, and as I predicted over two years ago, is that there are non-metallic, totally organic chemical compounds not being seen in these types of analyses that do the job of formerly all metallic additives.

Judge the quality by using at least three fills of the oil in question with at least three UOA's and get some trending data. Trending, not one snapshot, is what you need to see if the engine and oil are playing well together. And use no third-party additives during the trending or you will defeat the test with a third variable in which you have no idea how it affects the trending.


Edited by MolaKule (05/15/11 06:48 PM)
_________________________
When people tell me, "You're gonna regret that in the morning," I sleep past noon 'cause I'm a problem solver. smile

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >