World Standard Toyota ATF?

[supton]

Do a search, particularly on a Tacoma forum. Someone somewhere has done this, and taken pictures.

No, seriously. My Tundra has a sealed transmission, probably the same family (I have an A760, you might have an A750?). Goes something like this: drain bolt on the pan. Bazillion bolts around the pan to hold in place. Get a Duralast filter kit, not for the filter but rather for the rubber gasket. Filter is a strainer and doesn't need to be touched; only reason to drop the pan is to get out what sits in the bottom of the pan, and to check magnets. Clean pan, reinstall.

Fill plug on the side of the trans. Get a 1/2" or so ID hose, and snake it up into the engine compartment; shove a funnel into that. That's for filling. Had to dump in what came out with the drop (quart or two).

On mine, I have an external cooler, but there is coolant run to a small coolant to ATF heat exchanger. Which also has a thermostat in it, which cuts off ATF to the external cooler. I had to push in a pin to force it out of bypass mode.

Then I could pull a cooler line, start the truck, and get a qt per minute, some sort of flow like that. 14qt in my system.

When done, I took it for a quick spin, got the ATF up to the 115F or so that it needed to be (as per my Scanguage). Then I pulled another bolt on the pan. No ATF dribbled out, so I pumped a bit more into the trans, until I got a small stream.

Done.

Typing it up makes it sound awful. Doing this work on my Camry, which has a dipstick, was only slightly easier--no temperature checking, but I couldn't read the dipstick after adding ATF, and I wasn't paying close attention to how much came out / went in, so it was just as frustrating.

 

[Pelican]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: supton
Question: does dirty oil impact clutch life? If it doesn't (or has negligible impact) then I too wonder if its overblown. Fresh oil is better but don't most transmissions need repairs due to failed parts or failed clutches? And not for failed bearings?

Motor oil isn't shot when it turns black.


If it was so important to change the transmission fluid wouldn't it make sense that the manufacturer would make it easy to do FULL drains and re-fills?



It has been made difficult & complicated to give dealers more profit. ATF change is essential to the well being of your tranny over a long time

 

[meep]

I have a mightyvac and found another way---

I did it all from the external cooler - was able to suck a few quarts out through one of the cooler lines. One line would only suck air, but the other pulled fluid. I did this in the am at ambient temperatures between truck and bottles of the new ATF. I refilled the exact same amount, very slowly, through one of those two cooler lines. It helped to raise the funnel another couple of feet with spare tubing to gain some more gravity-fed motivation. Refilled with exact same qty. I've never done it, but there is a drain and a level check plug on the bottom of the pan on my 06. Level check plug drizzles over once the proper fluid height is met.

-m

 

[Dyusik]

Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
It's a mediocre oil with a short "lifetime".


+1. "Mediocre" is a gentle phrasing.

It is actually possibly worse than the T-IV fluid it replaced, despite being advertised as lifetime and reputedly semi syn. Some get decent lifetime out of it, but in others it fails quickly. A poster said yesterday his IS started slipping at 40k on it. My neighbor's 4Runner started slipping markedly on mild uphills at about 80/85k on it. There is a dramatic variance in people's experience with it. This argues that it might be questionable from some suppliers vs. others; it's doubtful Toyota sources it from the same refiner globally.

By all means, pump it all out via the transmission cooler line and refill with Amsoil or any good synthetic LV fluid.


Mine did. Is already asking for another change. Pathetic considering this was a complete exchange, not a simple pan drop.

 

[MaximaGuy]

Originally Posted By: DMBFan
I don't understand why Toyota has a sealed transmission. I was just at the dealer and the Service Rep. laughed when I mentioned a sealed transmission then said " That's why I have a 2012 Tacoma". The more I find out about the complexity of changing the ATF fluid the more I get frustrated

The Rep. also said it takes a special machine to change the fluid and can not be done in my garage or at a mechanic shop.

So, how does one get the debris out of the transmission after 100k miles?



There is absolutely no reason to try anything other than what is speced for the vehicle. If it is WS stick with it and replace often if the SWAGs on BITOG think there multiple fluids better than OEM fluid.

I tried RL D6 on my Lexus ES and dumped it as there was a subtle difference is shift quality specially when really hot.

IMO, the s/w, h/w and f/w interaction is well suited to stay with OEM fluid.

Sealed transmissions can be easily flushed via return line - check capacity and replace same amount. There is a dirty dance to get the level accurate, but it is unnecessary if you can measure what comes out and fill the same amount on a cold ATF before it expands and throws the level off....

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: Olas
There is NO SUCH THING as a lifetime fluid - the person you spoke to was a bare faced liar.

Refill with a fluid of the correct viscosity ASAP!!


that's funny...I have 94k miles on mine and to be honest, it looks like the day I brought the RAV home.

I started changing mine at lower mileage on my Corolla (87k), and it was dark, dark, dark. It took 3 drain and fills before it started looking new again. I wish I had started sooner.

Fortunately, mine has the full easy maintenance setup: pan, filter, drain plug and fill tube.

 

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted By: DMBFan
Good paper although it is for engine oil and not ATF fluid.

For those that don't want to read, here is the research result:

"A fleet of three vehicles was run in Las Vegas and oil samples were collected at various drain intervals from 3000 miles to 15000 miles. As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15000 mile drain interval. The composition of tribochemical films formed on the surface with the 3000 mile drain interval is similar to that formed with the 12000 mile drain interval as seen before...."


My mistake the paper is actually 2007-01-3987, Hopefully I have it correct this time.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy



There is absolutely no reason to try anything other than what is speced for the vehicle. If it is WS stick with it and replace often if the SWAGs on BITOG think there multiple fluids better than OEM fluid.


That is incredibly ignorant advice. I use the word "ignorant" in full knowledge because it willfully ignores valid evidence right here.

You can simply read the multiple user/owner experiences of the fluid failing to work as advertised. They are rife on this forum and a good sub-sample in this thread. Furthermore, why on earth would you suggest changing out the fluid, if you support the idea it is a lifetime fluid?:

Quote:
If it is WS stick with it and replace often...


What? You are telling us to replace often a "lifetime" fluid? Pardon my French, but WhThF?

I also have to point out the absurdity of this:

Quote:
There is absolutely no reason to try anything other than what is speced for the vehicle.


Yes, there is. Because as time goes by, TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES. There are far better fluids available now than in 1980, and hoarding a bunch of DexII in cardboard for your 1983 Z28 isn't the answer. The fact is that fluid technology has rapidly surpassed the late '90s tech of WS and we can jump 20 years ahead.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: Kibitoshin


I wish I knew a lot more on WS but what I know is that most universal LV ATF's can mimic it.

I would feel more comfortable using an universal ATF if there was some kind of certification put in place like what GM/Ford/FCA/Allison does with their fluids - a Toyota engineer himself said that "superior" type ATFs meeting JASO M315 are OK for use in place of the OEM fluid but there's so many variances between blenders. Aften, Lubrizol and Infineum who all are involved with the OEMs for their fluids did their testing but they also define which base oil is used, once their add packs leave their plants, they can't do much.

I'm afraid to use MaxLife in my parent's LS430 but they've said their van seems to work fine on it, a friend's Subaru ran fine on it(both D/F on a 2003 Forester which was speced for both Dex III and ATF-HP and top off on a 2012 Forester after running out of the OEM fluid) and it seems to be the most proven here. I just feel a little leery using a fluid that's self-certified to work on pretty much any car.

 

[Dyusik]

Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy



There is absolutely no reason to try anything other than what is speced for the vehicle. If it is WS stick with it and replace often if the SWAGs on BITOG think there multiple fluids better than OEM fluid.


That is incredibly ignorant advice. I use the word "ignorant" in full knowledge because it willfully ignores valid evidence right here.

You can simply read the multiple user/owner experiences of the fluid failing to work as advertised. They are rife on this forum and a good sub-sample in this thread. Furthermore, why on earth would you suggest changing out the fluid, if you support the idea it is a lifetime fluid?:

Quote:
If it is WS stick with it and replace often...


What? You are telling us to replace often a "lifetime" fluid? Pardon my French, but WhThF?

I also have to point out the absurdity of this:

Quote:
There is absolutely no reason to try anything other than what is speced for the vehicle.


Yes, there is. Because as time goes by, TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES. There are far better fluids available now than in 1980, and hoarding a bunch of DexII in cardboard for your 1983 Z28 isn't the answer. The fact is that fluid technology has rapidly surpassed the late '90s tech of WS and we can jump 20 years ahead.



To support the statements above:
OE will always go with the lowest bidder. Maybe not Koenigsegg, but your Chevy and Toyota sure will.

 

[MaximaGuy]

Originally Posted By: Dyusik
[ OE will always go with the lowest bidder.


What makes you believe a "superior" OTC is better, where is the data to prove the OTC fluid is "better".

If some jack-[censored] on BITOG said it doesn't become truth right!!!

Stick with OEM and D/F and/or flush frequently.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Stick with OEM and D/F and/or flush frequently.


And when OEM spec has been superseded twice, factory no longer enforces the spec, no such fluid available from dealer, only fluids are aftermarket and all have half-a-dozen other "meets or exceeds" on it?

Type A? Dexron? ATF+2? Where are you buying those?

 

[MaximaGuy]

Originally Posted By: Dyusik
OE will always go with the lowest bidder.


Who said that Toyota gets the lowest bidder to make their ATF, their relationship with Exxon-Mobil has been there for decades and only Toyota or XOM sells T fluids. Only XOM and Toyota know the exact chemistry of the additives and they are not arm twisting customers, T-IV is $4.99/Q and WS is $8.99/Q, it is being replaced once every 60K miles, why complain and say it is inferior.

Both are excellent companies making excellent return to their investors, why would they take short cuts.

You guys need to shut the [censored] up before complaining about OEM fluids. Toyota make the most reliables cars across the board and their transmissions are used by other companies and I personally haven't read/heard a slipping or dead transmission from Toyota.

So when making SWAGs remember it should have some credibility, the above statement is hog wash

 

[4WD]

Actually good to see some faith in companies that have stood the test of time.

 

[Dyusik]

Right back to the experiences of countless owners reporting sub par performance of the discussed fluid. IME the lifetime fluid lasts about 30k, give or take, which is in the performance range of 4x less than D3, considering 1/4 fluid changes of pan drops vs full exchanges. Again, it is labeled as lifetime in too many applications where in reality they barely last moderate intervals.
OE and exxon relationship, or more like contractual agreement means nothing, if the money's not there, then all no one will say " well since your are such a good friend...." OE fandom can take a chill pill, since your rage brings nothing to the board but reasons for people to seek advice . Calm down kid.

 

[MaximaGuy]

Originally Posted By: Dyusik
Right back to the experiences of countless owners reporting sub par performance of the discussed fluid. IME the lifetime fluid lasts about 30k, give or take, which is in the performance range of 4x less than D3, considering 1/4 fluid changes of pan drops vs full exchanges. Again, it is labeled as lifetime in too many applications where in reality they barely last moderate intervals.
OE and exxon relationship, or more like contractual agreement means nothing, if the money's not there, then all no one will say " well since your are such a good friend...." OE fandom can take a chill pill, since your rage brings nothing to the board but reasons for people to seek advice . Calm down kid.


We have discussed this over and over again on this forum. For a any manufacturer making profits "lifetime" is subjective, I think WS/Dexron VI will take a vehicle to 150K without any problems provided owners run their vehicles for what it is spaced for - no WOT, offloading, outrageous towing etc etc.

For example 150K may be the life of an automobile and then its time to move onto another vehicle. So "lifetime" marketing makes sense, the manufacturer is absolutely sure that unmaintained/abused vehicles will fall of the earth quickly, they don't care. Remember if WS costs $8.99/Q they must be vastly superior to T-IV and they are confident it can outlast their definition of "lifetime". If one thinks "lifetime" is 300K then it has to be maintained and remember those who have taken vehicles beyond 150K are folks who know how to maintain their vehicles i.e they replace their fluids and in the case of sealed transmissions they find a way to do it else they force the dealership to do it for them.

We have seen on this forum folks who have gotten 1M miles on their vehicles it didn't happen without serious maintenance and understanding what gives over time. In all honesty why would anyone want to drive beyond 10yrs a vehicle i.e is 150K-200K.

 

[Y_K]

ENEOS also makes a WS fluid. As well as T.

I own a Cruiser/LX with over 440k on it. The only WS fluid swap it had was at 185k. So far so good.
Just came back from a road trip and going for another long one in a week.

 

[TheKracken]

Originally Posted By: Y_K
ENEOS also makes a WS fluid. As well as T.

I own a Cruiser/LX with over 440k on it. The only WS fluid swap it had was at 185k. So far so good.
Just came back from a road trip and going for another long one in a week.


My sienna before I got it had 1 fluid swap with Tiv at 150k. Just did another at 270k.

Impressive amount of mile btw, what mileage did you start driving it?

 

[BrianF]

Does anyone know who currently has the contract to make the WS or even the T4 for toyota?

 

[Oro_O]

I don't think it's any one company.

I think Eneos/JXTG Nippon makes Toyota branded oil products in the domestic market, and I believe someone else is responsible in the US and a third in Europe. I read in Europe in the past it was Ravenol; don't know for a fact it's true or if so, still current. Given global refining capacity and competence, and TMC global needs, it just doesn't make sense to have one global manufacturer and I doubt they do. XOM is understood to be their US OEM for oil, stands to reason they may make.