Why not just use 0w oils?

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: mclasser
The 0W vs 10W aspect matters for oil burning engines. From what I've read on here, the lighter 0W may slip past worn rings and burn more easily compared to a 10W.



"Lighter?" Not necessarily so....

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1
Mobil1 AFE on left and regular Mobil1 on right:



Ofcourse there are exceptions, but generally speaking, most 0W-30 oils have a slightly lower Kinematic viscosity @ 100C than most 10W-30, 15W-30 or SAE 30 oils.


I don't know of too many 0W-30 offerings...

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Volvoeric
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but... if a 0w30 oil is in theory, the same as a 10w30, why dont we just all use the 0w30?


That's a fair question and theoretically you are correct. A 0w30 should be a better choice than a 10w30 for ANY Xw30 application.

Problem is, everyone's usage is going to be different and specs/formulations between oils vary.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

If you click on the product data bulletin link on the page at the bottom of this post, you will see summaries of data for Amsoil SS 0W30, 5W30, and 10W30 side by side.
One thing that stands out for me is that the NOACK losses drop from 8.8% for 0W30 to 6.7% for 5W30 and end up at 4.1% for 10W30. All very good numbers for those grades, BTW.
You can certainly find 10W30 oils with far higher NOACK losses than Amsoil SS 0W30, but within a line of oils from a given manufacturer, I think you will tend to find that the 10W30 will have a lower NOACK loss than the 0W30. Hard to make a definitive, sweeping statement here as NOACK loss is not commonly shared by oil makers.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/m.../?code=AZOQT-EA

 

[PeterPolyol]

wemay, HTHS for sure.
"follow the specs" SAE J300 applies strictly to kinematic viscosity, and a common misconception is that KV indicates a performance equivalency of like-graded oils, and that's a huge mistake. Looking for the more demanding certifications like manufacturers' or ACEA will tell you much more than the SAE grade. Hehe sounding like Overkill right now

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
wemay, HTHS for sure.
"follow the specs" SAE J300 applies strictly to kinematic viscosity, and a common misconception is that KV indicates a performance equivalency of like-graded oils, and that's a huge mistake. Looking for the more demanding certifications like manufacturers' or ACEA will tell you much more than the SAE grade. Hehe sounding like Overkill right now


HAHAHAHHA

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
If you click on the product data bulletin link on the page at the bottom of this post, you will see summaries of data for Amsoil SS 0W30, 5W30, and 10W30 side by side.
One thing that stands out for me is that the NOACK losses drop from 8.8% for 0W30 to 6.7% for 5W30 and end up at 4.1% for 10W30. All very good numbers for those grades, BTW.
You can certainly find 10W30 oils with far higher NOACK losses than Amsoil SS 0W30, but within a line of oils from a given manufacturer, I think you will tend to find that the 10W30 will have a lower NOACK loss than the 0W30. Hard to make a definitive, sweeping statement here as NOACK loss is not commonly shared by oil makers.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/m.../?code=AZOQT-EA


Also interesting that the 3 oils I reference all have similar HTHS values but the 100C viscosities from 0W30 -> 10W30 are 10.4, 10.3, and 10.0 cSt. Implies that you would get slightly better fuel economy with the 10W30 at normal operating temp but have the same level of protection as the other grades in extreme conditions.

 

[Volvoeric]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: Volvoeric
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but... if a 0w30 oil is in theory, the same as a 10w30, why dont we just all use the 0w30?


More VII, so it won't be as shear stable. In the case of my Corvette, I don't need to worry about cold starts, and I want an oil that will stay solidly in grade, especially if I get a little bit of fuel dilution due to the direct injection. So I wouldn't consider a 0w30 there. In my Honda, I've had a problem with M1 0w20 thinning out too much for my liking as well, so I bought some Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w20 for it's next interval to see if it maintains it's viscosity better.

BTW, welcome fellow Oakville resident!

Thanks Patman. Ive been lurking on the site for a while, and have always wondered about this because i thought about using 0w30 all year round instead of 5w30, like i currently do. As you know, we got a crazy cold winter this year.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

HAHAHAHHA

Cheers man!

Virtus that is notable. Volatility percentage more than halved with the 10W30 (likely no VMs) over 0W30.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

HAHAHAHHA

Cheers man!

Virtus that is notable. Volatility percentage more than halved with the 10W30 (likely no VMs) over 0W30.


...and it seems more the norm than an exception.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

HAHAHAHHA

Cheers man!
Virtus that is notable. Volatility percentage more than halved with the 10W30 (likely no VMs) over 0W30.

You can see something similar with Valvoline Full Synthetic, NOACK losses for 0W20/5W20 are 11.1%/7.6% while 5W30/10W30 are 9.3%/8.0%. In this case, the 10W30 is quite a bit thicker than the 5W30 at 100C (10.8 to 10.2 cSt) while sharing the same HTHS (3.2cP).

BTW, gimme a beer, too!
;^)

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

HAHAHAHHA

Cheers man!
Virtus that is notable. Volatility percentage more than halved with the 10W30 (likely no VMs) over 0W30.

You can see something similar with Valvoline Full Synthetic, NOACK losses for 0W20/5W20 are 11.1%/7.6% while 5W30/10W30 are 9.3%/8.0%. In this case, the 10W30 is quite a bit thicker than the 5W30 at 100C (10.8 to 10.2 cSt) while sharing the same HTHS (3.2cP).

BTW, gimme a beer, too!
;^)

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Volvoeric
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but... if a 0w30 oil is in theory, the same as a 10w30, why dont we just all use the 0w30?


If the oil came out of the ground in those grades, that would make sense.

It's where the "W" sort of stated from. Some oils had better Viscosity Indices than others, others resisted wax formation easier than others.

So for a given operating viscosity, GOOD, or BETTER oils had higher Viscosity Index and better pour points.

Since the 70s (longer, but I'll use current state), we have been able to manipulate the oil chemistry to reduce the temperature that cold effects happen, and improve the viscosity index.

In order to make the lower "W" grade oils, they typically start off with lower basestock viscosities, with higher volatility, and more Viscosity modifiers.

Here's data from a mobil blend guide (note it's not the recipe to anything, it's a mobil document showing how these grades could typically be formulated.



Same source, here's a potential semi synth...



To my mind personally, and in a country that I could use 15W anything all year round, I don't need or want the compromises that 0W carries.

That being said, anything synthetic in 30 or 40 is typically at least 5W

 

[jongies3]

I dunno, but I intend to find out! Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30 is going in my Tacoma soon. Curious to see about this advanced fuel economy claim..

 

[racin4ds]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
M1 isn't the oil it used to be, not even close...


Ahh yes, this bovine excrement again. I see you don't tire of rolling this steaming wheelbarrow load out whenever the chance presents itself

Yes sir!!! Have to educate the masses any chance I get!! and its not bovine excrement man, I like to call it "avian fecal matter"

It just amazes me to see people still so in "love" with M1... I guess old habits die hard!

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds


Yes sir!!! Have to educate the masses any chance I get!! and its not bovine excrement man, I like to call it "avian fecal matter"

It just amazes me to see people still so in "love" with M1... I guess old habits die hard!


Educate the masses? More like spreading false info. There is nothing wrong with Mobil 1, but I'll never convince you irrational Mobil 1 haters of the facts, so I'm not even going to bother. Believe what you will....

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds

It just amazes me to see people still so in "love" with M1... I guess old habits die hard!


Some of us have had excellent service from their products, verified via tear-down. That includes myself. I'm not "in love" with their products, I currently have Castrol 0w-40 in the Jeep, however I do believe they have several top-notch products in their portfolio such as their EP 0w-20, their 0w-40 and others.

That being said, similarly approved SN GF-5 grades are all going to perform... similarly. In the applications that spec them.

To contend that Mobil products are "not as good as" products with the same approvals is ridiculous. The Mobil 1 line-up also includes a number of products that are, as viewed through the lens of the PQIA VOA's, in the top-heap when compared to others of the same grade.

Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 is blended with a significant amount of expensive PAO, despite not being a requirement for that grade, as demonstrated by numerous others that are Group III based. Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 is blended using the latest GTL base oils, just like the much revered SOPUS products.

It seems there's a double-standard regarding Mobil products and it isn't the "fanboys" that are "in love" with their products that are the issue, it's the hollow fear-mongering, hyperbole and conjecture from the opposition.

 

[Garak]

Cost can also be a consideration. One can buy a 5w-30 or a 10w-30 conventional. One cannot do the same with a 0w-30. Of course, there are some very cost effective 0w-30 options, particularly in the HDEO realms, but that may not be ideal for all applications and users.

With respect to M1 complaints, realistically, every ILSAC product on the shelf of one grade and one product tier is essentially interchangeable with each other. If M1 5w-30 is going to somehow trash an engine, so will Synpower in the same grade. If M1 0w-20 will have a vehicle last forever and a day, so will Castrol black bottle 0w-20.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

LOL why not. Do we really have a choice? List a dozen full synthetics that are straight single weight.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: racin4ds
It just amazes me to see people still so in "love" with M1... I guess old habits die hard!


And it's really funny to see unwarranted prejudices! Old stereotypes die hard!

 

[pscholte]

I can’t resist taking the bait and veering off topic. I opened my first can (yes CAN...a shiny silver can with black printing) of Mobil 1 in the mid 70s. The only negative i have ever associated with this oil was that the early formulation sometimes allowed the low oil pressure light to illuminate at idle in an aircooled Beetle which was designed for straight weight oils. Even then, no damage was reported