Why is Rotella the only non API Sx rated HDEO?

[Dak27]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Exactly. Since there are plenty SN rated HDEO's, why not be the product that kept the good stuff

I think it's great that Shell Rotella/Pennzoil has a Representative on the BITOG forums. I really wish Chevron would do the same, especially in regards to the lower ZDDP in their current 15W40. I talked with a gentleman at Chevron Delo, and asked why they chose to go with the SN rating on CK4 15W40 SDE and 10W30 XLE. He said the higher ZDDP levels were "Older additive technology", and the newest version is the "Latest technology ", which doesn't require as much ZDDP, but he didn't tell me what the "Latest technology" entailed.

I have a UOA sample of both the SDE and the XLE at home that I keep forgetting to send to Blackstone, however, I've been using SDE and XLE in my Series 60 Detroit for over a year, and it hasn't imploded yet.

And another reason I'm not overly concerned, as Delo 400 meets the requirements of Detroit's 93K222, along with the other major diesel engine manufacturers, -besides Ford, that is.

I also figure if Mobil Delvac Super has went the same route as Delo 400, there's even less to be concerned about.

 

[Brigadier]

So, the dual spec T6 5W40 was for API SM. Does the current version still meet SM, just isn't on the bottle due to SN being the current spec?

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm not sure if Shell is the only one. There are some possible Delvac examples, but the sheets may not exactly be clear. Castrol has an E6 version in Canada that is also not SM or SN.

As for phosphorus, we have to remember this API rule applies only to 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 HDEOs, just like European A3/B4 varieties in those grades, which do not list SN or SM.


A3/B4 is full saps spec. in sae40 grades (15w40 10w40 5w40)... Sae30 is more "environmentally" or "CAFE" if you like oriented with Acea Cx (dpf specs)...in 99.9% cases in 5w30 grade

 

[Garak]

In North America, if you look at Castrol 0w-40, it will be A3/B4 of course, and also API SN, because it's a 40. You look at Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4 or 5w-30 A3/B4, you will see SL because of phosphorus levels.

With the HDEOs in North America, up to CJ-4, you could have CJ-4/SM or CJ-4/SN with elevated phosphorus in all grades, as long as the CJ-4 (or CI-4 for older ones) was listed first. With CK-4, the so called ILSAC grades of 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 have to follow the phosphorus limits if SN is shown. The 15w-40, 5w-40, 0w-40 and so forth follow the old rule.

As for ACEA specs, just about every HDEO that I can think of in 5w-30 is E6. In any case, the E6 and E7, E9 lubricants will all have SA of 1.0 here, and the ordinary SN/GF-5 PCMOs will be less than that, but not quite down to C3 levels. My current fill, for example, the Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, is CK-4/SN and E6. TBN is 11, SA is 1, and phosphorus is around 800 ppm.

 

[Jim Allen]

I'm really behind the curve on this. Can you guys confirm that the 40 grade HDEOs DID NOT drop the ZDDP below 1000 ppm, even though they may have an CK-5/SN API label? It appears so.

 

[Garak]

The waiver is gone for the so-called ILSAC grades, such as 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30, bringing things in line to the way the Euro A3/B4 options are handled. So, it'll be like that, where we can see a higher phosphorus M1 0w-40 A3/B4 have SN and a Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 being CK-4/SN with higher phosphorus, but the 30 grades won't be able to have the SN with CK-4 and elevated phosphorus.

Now, as mentioned in other threads, how an oil company formulates is another matter. Just because a 5w-40 or 15w-40 can retain higher phosphorus with CK-4/SN while they have to cut phosphorus in the equivalent 10w-30 CK-4/SN doesn't mean they won't have a low phosphorus treat rate across the board. The only way to tell would be asking the oil company in question (if they'll answer) or checking the VOAs, both of which you're more than familiar with.

With respect to my current fill, it's low phosphorus even if it weren't CK-4 with SN in a 5w-30 HDEO, because the E6 has the same low phosphorus requirement.