Who makes a fluid for 8 speed Ram 1500?

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Its clear from the amount of speculation happening here that noone (myself included) knows the who, how, and where this fluid is made. I have emailed ZF directly in an attempt to get accurate information straight from the source. What can be said for sure is that lifegaurd 8 fluid is "equivalent" to a product called M-L12108. The specifications for lifegaurd are found easily online... the specifications for L-12108 are not. I emailed shell and was provided the specifications and info. The shell agent explained that 12108 is a "bulk" product made specifically for 1 customer - AUDI. The specs for it are IDENTICAL to lifegaurd 8. That's not coincidence... its because that fluid is lifegaurd 8. I think my point was kinda lost... all the fluids represented on the TE-ML 11 (8 speed automatic section) are lifegaurd 8. The reason you can't find "specs" online for mopar 8&9 fluid, or BMW'S fluid, LAND ROVER ect... is because those fluids are ligegaurd 8 fluid. This is where the speculation part begins.... noone knows for sure the details of licensing deals or arrangements made for the actual production of this fluid for these companies. ZF covers this on there data sheet info for lifeguard 8
"Please note that only ZF LifeguardFluid 8 or ZF LifeguardFluid 9 may be used for these transmissions (where applicable, also available as genuine spare part from the relevant Original Equipment Manufacturer)". So my only point earlier was regardless of who makes it for mopar, or where they make it. What they are making is LIFEGUARD 8 fluid. Its identical (specification wise) to lifegaurd 8... because those are the specifications required by ZF for use in there transmissions. So know matter what its called, or what OEM part number it has... if your buying one of the fluids on that list... you are buying fluid that is identical in everyway (other than the name) to the PATENTED ZF LIFEGUARD 8 FLUID. I admit I have no information as to where each auto maker actually produces it or what company they contract to for its production. Or the terms of the arrangements made between the companies for its production. Those details are something noone here knows in full and to be frank are irrelevant to my original point.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

It is not hot and divisive topic. Most members know here how things are done in industry. You are reinventing wheel here and stumbling as you go. You might read carefully here as some members here worked actually on blending, testing and approval process, so I would not characterize that as "opinions."

And given the continued number of posts to this thread following my statement I'd say its clear this is a very divisise topic.

 

[BigJohn]

Lots of towing in the high elevations of the Rockies.... Tranny temps regularly reached 198-202 on 10-12k mountain passes on the OEM pan and fluid for the first 90k miles.

I now have 26k on Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic ATF and it is flawless.

I also did the bigger tranny pan and since that change, I haven't had a temp over 196.

My transmission feels like new.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Lots of towing in the high elevations of the Rockies.... Tranny temps regularly reached 198-202 on 10-12k mountain passes on the OEM pan and fluid for the first 90k miles.

I now have 26k on Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic ATF and it is flawless.

I also did the bigger tranny pan and since that change, I haven't had a temp over 196.

My transmission feels like new.

What did it cost you for the ppe pan plus gasket?

 

[4WD]

Its clear from the amount of speculation happening here that noone (myself included) knows the who, how, and where this fluid is made. I have emailed ZF directly in an attempt to get accurate information straight from the source. What can be said for sure is that lifegaurd 8 fluid is "equivalent" to a product called M-L12108. The specifications for lifegaurd are found easily online... the specifications for L-12108 are not. I emailed shell and was provided the specifications and info. The shell agent explained that 12108 is a "bulk" product made specifically for 1 customer - AUDI. The specs for it are IDENTICAL to lifegaurd 8. That's not coincidence... its because that fluid is lifegaurd 8. I think my point was kinda lost... all the fluids represented on the TE-ML 11 (8 speed automatic section) are lifegaurd 8. The reason you can't find "specs" online for mopar 8&9 fluid, or BMW'S fluid, LAND ROVER ect... is because those fluids are ligegaurd 8 fluid. This is where the speculation part begins.... noone knows for sure the details of licensing deals or arrangements made for the actual production of this fluid for these companies. ZF covers this on there data sheet info for lifeguard 8
"Please note that only ZF LifeguardFluid 8 or ZF LifeguardFluid 9 may be used for these transmissions (where applicable, also available as genuine spare part from the relevant Original Equipment Manufacturer)". So my only point earlier was regardless of who makes it for mopar, or where they make it. What they are making is LIFEGUARD 8 fluid. Its identical (specification wise) to lifegaurd 8... because those are the specifications required by ZF for use in there transmissions. So know matter what its called, or what OEM part number it has... if your buying one of the fluids on that list... you are buying fluid that is identical in everyway (other than the name) to the PATENTED ZF LIFEGUARD 8 FLUID. I admit I have no information as to where each auto maker actually produces it or what company they contract to for its production. Or the terms of the arrangements made between the companies for its production. Those details are something noone here knows in full and to be frank are irrelevant to my original point.

Yeah … I assumed that when I ordered ZF fluid for the Chrysler made HP50 …
Did not assume the Mopar decal made it worth 2x the cost

 

[BigJohn]

What did it cost you for the ppe pan plus gasket?

Maybe $240'ish with the filter.

But a good investment for me.... As I am taking this truck to at least 300k miles come hell or high water.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Maybe $240'ish with the filter.

But a good investment for me.... As I am taking this truck to at least 300k miles come hell or high water.

Does the PPE pan still have magnets inside?

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Funny how a bunch of the posts just magically disappeared from this thread

 

[MolaKule]

I think we're getting hung up on the "actually blends it themselves". If a company develops a specific product with a specific blend of ingredients and then gets a patent on that blend/product... its irrelevant who they contract to mass produce it. If prego makes a spaghetti sauce and then hires a Chinese company to produce it following there exact specifications... it doesn't mean its not that its no prego sauce. If they allow someone else to use/produce there patented formula and sell it as a re-branded name for a licensing fee or perhaps royalty... its still there product. Regardless of where its produced, the US, CANADA, CHINA, MEXICO, GERMANY, its a patented ZF product.

It is not "WE" who are hung up or confused but it is you. You made the following statements shown below:

Not sure where you get your information but lifegaurd 8 fluid is absolutely made by ZF... the actual name of the fluid is ZF LIFEGUARD 8. The data sheet for the fluid clearly shows this... as does the patent. And why on earth would they "not make money" selling it? Companies don't sell anything (whether they produce it or just sell it) for free. There'd be no point at all in being involved with a 0 profit product.

The lab testing i was referring to is Blackstone lab results... so no not saying ZF has approved maxlife. But remember ZF makes there own fluid so of course there not going to be eager to approve a competitors product.

I think I have made it clear that the above statement is not correct; ZF does not "make" or blend their own ATF fluid. They do what every other manufacturer does as I described previously.

There were European, Japanese, and US patent claims made on Dexron VI for example, so I don't see your Patent statement or spaghetti comment as adding anything to the discussion. Neither SDS's nor patents give any secrets away.

...Or the terms of the arrangements made between the companies for its production. Those details are something noone here knows in full and to be frank are irrelevant to my original point...

Again not true as some of us here DO know.

Its clear from the amount of speculation happening here that noone (myself included) knows the who, how, and where this fluid is made...]

It's clear from the current approval list of suppliers who the current Blenders are.

 

[MolaKule]

Funny how a bunch of the posts just magically disappeared from this thread

When posts are divisive, off topic, or have personal attacks associated with them they are pulled.

If you have a problem with one of the posts being removed then contact one of the staff members and he will give you a valid reason as to why the post was deleted.

 

[MolaKule]

...The recurring theme across multiple forums from hundreds of people was they used valvoline with no problems. The sheer amount of use in these transmissions ranging from BMW sports cars, to diesel trucks towing on a daily basis. Many of testimonials having 100,000 km + since changing. Does this have something to do with the fact the valvoline is the cheapest alternative?... probably....

Why do you say "probably?" Have you considered the possibility that MaxLife works (functions properly in most transmissions), that Valvoline contracted with Lubrizol to make a special DI additive package to make it an LV MultiVehicle fluid?

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

When posts are divisive, off topic, or have personal attacks associated with them they are pulled.

If you have a problem with one of the posts being removed then contact one of the staff members and he will give you a valid reason as to why the post was deleted.

Why do you say "probably?" Have you considered the possibility that MaxLife works (functions properly in most transmissions), that Valvoline contracted with Lubrizol to make a special DI additive package to make it an LV MultiVehicle fluid?

I was only postulating on a reason you see so much more info (testimonials) on maxlife than for example amsoil or motul... I thought a reasonable explanation for it was "probably" partially due to the fact that Valvoline is so much cheaper than the others

 

[RamFan]

Oh why not stir the pot some more!?

The Giulia comes with the ZF 8 speed, it’s factory filled with Petronas Tutela AS8.

So neither the ZF fluid nor OE. Take that for what you will.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Petronas is one of the companies on ZF'S approved list. So it lifeguard 8 fluid, just produced by Petronas

 

[OVERKILL]

Petronas is one of the companies on ZF'S approved list. So it lifeguard 8 fluid, just produced by Petronas

As I noted in one of these threads (there are so many) it's basically the same as ATF+4, which, no matter who makes it, is VERY similar in composition because of the strict controls Chrysler put on it. Yes, there are minor variations blender to blender, but nothing major.

 

[edyvw]

I was only postulating on a reason you see so much more info (testimonials) on maxlife than for example amsoil or motul... I thought a reasonable explanation for it was "probably" partially due to the fact that Valvoline is so much cheaper than the others

Yes, Valvoline is cheaper, and Valvoline makes good fluids. There is nothing controversial about that. Most people do not think a lot about it, especially if vehicles are out of warranty.
Would I personally go route of Amsoil or Motul instead of Valvoline? Well, I have Motul in my Toyota, works like a charm. It shifts better than WS I had before in it.
When I had BMW X5 with ZF 6 speed, I used ZF6 fluid. A lot of BMW owners use Maxlife or Redline D4 and D6, but I used ZF6. I think it is worth it. I took down pan after 64k, and it was clean, and oil still had its red color. IMO, worth investment every 60k.

 

[Grand cherokee hemi]

Yes, Valvoline is cheaper, and Valvoline makes good fluids. There is nothing controversial about that. Most people do not think a lot about it, especially if vehicles are out of warranty.
Would I personally go route of Amsoil or Motul instead of Valvoline? Well, I have Motul in my Toyota, works like a charm. It shifts better than WS I had before in it.
When I had BMW X5 with ZF 6 speed, I used ZF6 fluid. A lot of BMW owners use Maxlife or Redline D4 and D6, but I used ZF6. I think it is worth it. I took down pan after 64k, and it was clean, and oil still had its red color. IMO, worth investment every 60k.

I have never personally used motul or amsoil but based on the info I've seen they both have fantastic reputations... I would be curious to see a test done where 3 identical vehicles with 8 speeds are driven over the same route using cruise control. Only difference being one using original lifegaurd 8, one using maxlife, and one using amsoil fuel efficient. I'd be interested to see A - which one heats up faster and gets to max temp first. B - what difference (if any) in fuel economy there would be over the course of say a 200 mile drive.

 

[demarpaint]

As I noted in one of these threads (there are so many) it's basically the same as ATF+4, which, no matter who makes it, is VERY similar in composition because of the strict controls Chrysler put on it. Yes, there are minor variations blender to blender, but nothing major.

I'd no have no issue on using Petronas fluid, if was easily available and I could save a few dollars. I can't wrap my head around putting Maxlife in the ZF8 transmission in question here though. Nothing against Valvoline, it's that one size fits all mentality that bothers me. It can't possibly be the best ATF for every application they claim it can be used in.

On my buddy @Trav 's recommendation I used Maxlife with good results in a 2000 Buick Century, long out of warranty. Maxlife was also in use for well over a decade in millions of those transmissions, and the cost to replace one is probably a quarter of what a ZF8 costs. He is one of a handful of people I take recommendations from. Sorry to say if I owned a ZF8 transmission it is going to take a lot more convincing than this thread to make me pour Maxlife in it. Maybe when they're around as long as my Century was and in as many transmissions as my [retired] Century I'd give it a shot.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Oh why not stir the pot some more!?

The Giulia comes with the ZF 8 speed, it’s factory filled with Petronas Tutela AS8.

So neither the ZF fluid nor OE. Take that for what you will.

If it's factory fill, it's OE by definition.