Which Reciever? The Final Cut... ( I hope)

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My understanding is that reference level = 0 on my volume display. My last AVR was a HK 240. I very rarely got to 0, and if I did it's because I couldn't hear the dialog.

My last system was a bit of a hodgepodge, one issue was that I didn't have my center and fronts matched. The HK did have some sort of microphone based auto setup, but I was always really unhappy with how it performed.
 
I'd go with the Denon AVR-X2000, as it has Audyssey MultEQ XT, which has higher filter resolution for the satellites and also allows you to take measurements from 8 different positions.

I suggest reading the Audyssey thread at AVR Forum. I bought a tripod boom mike stand from Amazon for $25 along with a $10 adapter to mount the Audyssey microphone. I threw everyone out of the house and turned off the HVAC as well as the phone. I followed the recommended placements from the Audyssey thread and the results were phenomenal- my primary HTS is located in a large asymmetric room and I didn't expect to hear the sound quality and smooth tonal balance that MultEQ achieved.
YMMV, but I doubt it.
 
Originally Posted By: TWG1572
My understanding is that reference level = 0 on my volume display. My last AVR was a HK 240. I very rarely got to 0, and if I did it's because I couldn't hear the dialog.




If you can't hear the dialogue, it means you need to re-calibrate or adjust your speaker placement. I used to have a lot of problems with that until I put some Sorbothane pads under the center channel and aimed it slightly upwards.

Reason I ask about reference level is because I would be concerned you'd have to max that amp out almost all the time.

Some receivers display reference level as 0, some do not. My Marantz gives you the option of relative vs absolute.
 
I agree with the thought that there isn't much difference in sound quality between competently designed amplifiers. Did everything go digital yet? Digital amps are good at maintaining power output across multiple speakers, whereas the analog amps will typically sag, due to power supply voltage drop and possibly current limiting. I got on board with a Panasonic SA-XR55S 7.1 channel before they were popular. Still have it, sounds great with my 7.1 system, with a Carvin HD1800 (1800Wrms) driving two separate 15" Tempest 214L ported subwoofers. That is all in a very large room, about 2/3 of a furnished basement.

Acoustics compensation e.g. Audyssey, could make a large difference and reduce the need for room treatments, but, starting with a good room is always going to be best.
 
Originally Posted By: keith
I agree with the thought that there isn't much difference in sound quality between competently designed amplifiers. Did everything go digital yet? Digital amps are good at maintaining power output across multiple speakers, whereas the analog amps will typically sag, due to power supply voltage drop and possibly current limiting. I got on board with a Panasonic SA-XR55S 7.1 channel before they were popular. Still have it, sounds great with my 7.1 system, with a Carvin HD1800 (1800Wrms) driving two separate 15" Tempest 214L ported subwoofers. That is all in a very large room, about 2/3 of a furnished basement.

Acoustics compensation e.g. Audyssey, could make a large difference and reduce the need for room treatments, but, starting with a good room is always going to be best.




There are a lot of digital amps now, yes. Even companies like Marantz offer them. They are slimmer and run cooler, but you sacrifice output (typically half) and a lot of inputs/outputs. From what I've seen, they're targeted more at the casual home theatre person than a more serious enthusiast.

Since the OP needs a lot of power to fill a big room and to drive big speakers, it's probably not ideal. Would work better in a smaller room with smaller speakers.
 
Today and tomorrow newegg has the monitor 35's for 99, minus a 40 dollar rebate, minus a 10 dollar coupon.... 50 bucks a pair. For that it's hard to pass up if it takes you from a 3.x to a 5.x speaker system... especially since at that price if you upgrade and they end up in a kitchen/den/garage that works too.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Today and tomorrow newegg has the monitor 35's for 99, minus a 40 dollar rebate, minus a 10 dollar coupon.... 50 bucks a pair. For that it's hard to pass up if it takes you from a 3.x to a 5.x speaker system... especially since at that price if you upgrade and they end up in a kitchen/den/garage that works too.


Wow. Those sold out quick! I guess the good thing about NewEgg is that these Polk specials tend to come around pretty frequently. I missed the $99 sale on the CS2 center last week, so I may be stereo only for a bit till the sale rotates back.

Still mulling over the reciever choices. I learned how to search Best Buy's open box items online which has opened up a couple other options withing a 100 mile radius. Costco also has a $350 Sony DN1030, which while a year old seems to have decent reviews.

Costco Sony aside, I've pretty much narrowed it down to Denon and Yamaha. The tradeoff seems to be Audessy vs. Yamaha's potential better build quality. Or at least everyone who owns Yamahas seems to be really satisfied with their longevity and lack of issues.
 
I just scrolled through the thread, but I figured being that I do professional audio work as a secondary job (recording and mastering records mostly), I'd chime in
smile.gif


Personally, Pioneer is my go-to brand for AVR's, without a doubt! The SC-1222K is an absolute steal right now, being identical inside to the Elite SC-63/65 units, the only difference being that the 1222 doesn't have the pair of 12V triggers... Seeing as you are getting basically a $1500 receiver for $500 or less, one that is cleaner sounding, more versatile, and better built than ANY Onkyo, Denon, or even Yamaha anywhere near that price...it's something I just can't NOT recommend!

As for speakers, well, owning and enjoying everything from my countless vintage sets (currently listening to RTR Digital V Model20's) to "fun" speakers like Cerwin Vega VE-12's to "serious" speakers like the full surround set of Sonus Faber Cremona's I've got...and not counting the closet of headphones...I'd like to think that I'm pretty well up to speed on the subtle (and not so subtle) differences from one to the next. Then again, the reason I get paid is because of that, so chicken or egg?

Anyway, you won't believe me until you go into a store and hear them for yourself, but I'm going to save you HUNDREDS of dollars here and tell you:
STAY AWAY FROM THE JUNK POLK/KLIPSCH MASS MARKET STUFF!!! They're barely a step above Bose anymore, honestly.

For home theater and music on a pseudo-budget, I recommend and stand behind 100% the Pioneer by Andrew Jones series of speakers, and you can get a full 11.2ch setup for less than a 5.1ch setup of mediocre Polk's.
Andrew Jones is basically the god of speaker design, and he really did design these from the ground up; and so while they don't look like much, he was given a certain price he couldn't exceed, and rather than fancy wood finishes, it ALL went towards the actual components and especially the extremely elegantly designed crossover units that look more at home in a $1500 unit than a $150/pair set!

Yeah, that's right.... $150 a pair for the FS-51 towers (FS-52 is available now), and so far I've converted 6 different friends to them from their Bose/Polk/Klipsch setups...
One of the great things about 4-way towers that sound 10x as expensive as they are (and are only 3.5' tall)? YOU DON'T HAVE TO SACRIFICE BY USING BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS ANYWHERE!!!!

Surround sound is inherently a compromise in a home setting, unless you have true full-range speakers in every position (don't even get me started on the stupidity behind horizontal WTW design "center channel" speakers!).
Add a pair of 10-12" powered subwoofers (really, 10" is the most you need unless it's a huge room), and for $150/pair x4 + $100/pair x2 ([censored]-42 3-way bookshelves for FH/FW) + $100 x2 (subs) + $500 (SC-1222K), you have 8 FULL RANGE towers superior to any of the Polk you have been looking at, another 4 LARGE 3-way bookshelves, a pair of 10/12" voice-matched subwoofers, and an extremely powerful Class D3 amped Receiver!

Without going used, I've yet to find a single setup that comes anywhere close, and remember, I am eating crow myself saying this sitting here with quite a few $4-8k/pair speakers by me.... :S

So, if anyone can do full 7.1ch surround USING 4-WAY TOWERS for all mains PLUS four 3-way bookshelves for FH/FW speakers PLUS dual subwoofers...PLUS a top-of-the-line home receiver using a C3d amplifier...and do it for anywhere near $1500 (11.2ch) without any compromises in quality, you'll be the first to show me a truly superior alternative.... I just don't think it can be done.
 
Originally Posted By: nleksan


Anyway, you won't believe me until you go into a store and hear them for yourself, but I'm going to save you HUNDREDS of dollars here and tell you:
STAY AWAY FROM THE JUNK POLK/KLIPSCH MASS MARKET STUFF!!! They're barely a step above Bose anymore, honestly.




OP already has speakers, so at this point it's moot. I wouldn't classify the Polk Monitors as junk. For mass-market/off-the-shelf speakers, they're a solid buy. Stepping up to the RTi line is even better. Not everyone is going to feel comfortable buying from these smaller companies. (for the record, I own a BIC sub, which I am pleased with)

Obviously sound is very subjective so everyone should go listen for themselves and buy what they think sounds best.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Obviously sound is very subjective so everyone should go listen for themselves and buy what they think sounds best.


Never happen. Instead they will buy something huge and clunky because it looks cool and they 'imagine' it sounds terrific.

People usually do not buy stereo based on how it sounds. It's just human nature.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: dparm
Obviously sound is very subjective so everyone should go listen for themselves and buy what they think sounds best.


Never happen. Instead they will buy something huge and clunky because it looks cool and they 'imagine' it sounds terrific.

People usually do not buy stereo based on how it sounds. It's just human nature.



Yeah, I agree. The stores never seem to have consistent listening environments for demo'ing and A/B'ing.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: nleksan


Anyway, you won't believe me until you go into a store and hear them for yourself, but I'm going to save you HUNDREDS of dollars here and tell you:
STAY AWAY FROM THE JUNK POLK/KLIPSCH MASS MARKET STUFF!!! They're barely a step above Bose anymore, honestly.




OP already has speakers, so at this point it's moot. I wouldn't classify the Polk Monitors as junk. For mass-market/off-the-shelf speakers, they're a solid buy. Stepping up to the RTi line is even better. Not everyone is going to feel comfortable buying from these smaller companies. (for the record, I own a BIC sub, which I am pleased with)

Obviously sound is very subjective so everyone should go listen for themselves and buy what they think sounds best.


Do they still make the Polk "Reference Standard" and the Klipsch "Klipschorn"?
 
So...we have a reciever. I scoured the open box items at local Best Buys and found one that had two open box Yamaha RX-V675 recievers. Went in yesterday afternoon and told them I was interested, but not at their price, and was able to get them down to $370. I would have liked to have a reciever with Auddessy but figured it wasn't such a major tradeoff that I should pass up on this.

It also qualifies for the full mfg warranty, unlike the recievers I had listed at the beginning of my thread - which were all refurbished. I hopefully won't have to use it, but it's nice to get that additional year just in case.

Anyway - I got the speakers hooked up late last night. I bi-amped them just because this reciever offers the functionality so I figured I might as well. I've played with it a bit and run the automated setup. I've got it playing all day today to try and break everythign in.

I'm not sure what I think of the sound yet. I was messing around with the internet radio last night and found an Amsterdam trance station where it felt like the sound was right on target and it just popped. But I haven't gotten there yet on everything. Lots of settings to play with....I've just scratched the surface and don't really know what I'm doing so got a lot of learning to do.
 
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This is why I really pushed an Audyssey-equipped receiver...it will do all the configuration for you. Hopefully you can get it setup to your liking.
 
That Yamaha looks very nice, and so does getting it for $370. Yamaha makes very durable receivers, and that one even supports 4k video pass through, nifty.
 
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