Which Reciever? The Final Cut... ( I hope)

[TWG1572]

A couple weeks ago, I started a “which receiver?” thread. I learned quite a bit, it’s run its course, and I’m a more focused now so I thought I’d start another one seeking some more definitive input on a receiver short list I have. I’ve filtered down to ones with the features I “think” I need using the Crutchfield website. My key filters were network ready, at least 5.1, DLNA certified, and video conversion. I also trimmed the list to models with a price less than $400 on Accessories4Less. Here it is.

Denon E400 $329
Onkyo NR626 $379
Denon X2000 $399
Yamaha A720 $399

My amateur opinion is that these would all trade blows, with price being the main differentiator now. I listened to the Yamaha/Denons at some of our local stores here, and my ear couldn’t tell the difference. The X2000 and A720 are from a higher end series of models, so I suspect there may be some benefits there that I haven’t quantified. The Audyssey setup would be a plus on some.

My system/ room setup: Large rectangular room with poorer acoustics. 18x40 possibly at the top end. I currently have a set of Polk Monitor 70’s bought on one of NewEgg’s sales of $150 per speaker. I know they are not top end, but the consensus seems to be they represent good value for the money when bought right. I’ll buy a matching CS2 center in the near term. Sub and surrounds are further off, in that order. Opinions on these speakers seem to be polar opposites – ranging from needing power to sound good to being super-efficient. I don’t know who’s right.

My questions?

1.Given my speakers/room - I in the right range as far as the four receivers above go? I biased the choices a bit to ones with higher power, given the room size and speakers.
2. Of the four, which would you pick and why?

 

[JHZR2]

You didnt post specs on these, and I dont have the time to go dig them up...
But Ive been really happy with my Yamaha stuff. Some said at the time that it was too bright, but I dont think so - sounds great.

 

[dparm]

I would give a slight nod to that Denon X2000 since it has the higher-end Audyssey version, which will give a noticeable improvement in sound quality. It also has 7 power amps, which should give you a bit more oomph for those big front speakers. I have the RTiA7, btw, which is the big brother to the M70.

Overall those four are very similar so it might just come down to which one has the features you want (I noticed there are a few small differences).

I recommend you consider Marantz, which is Denon's higher-end brand.

 

[Donald]

I thought you would be talking about a receiver hitch for a car/truck.

 

[TWG1572]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
You didnt post specs on these, and I dont have the time to go dig them up...
But Ive been really happy with my Yamaha stuff. Some said at the time that it was too bright, but I dont think so - sounds great.


I can appreciate that. I'm buried in specs - which are the critical few that would be useful? They are all 7.1, 90-95 watts with 2 channels driven.

 

[TWG1572]

Originally Posted By: dparm

I recommend you consider Marantz, which is Denon's higher-end brand.


I did look at Marantz, but the price points seemed like they got out of my range. The cheaper ones didn't seem to be well reviewed. I'll dig though the website again - I know quite a few people recommended them.

 

[cmorr]

If you can get the RX-A720 for $399 go for it, otherwise go with the Onkyo.

Based on personal experience I have no faith in Denon electronics (I have had some of their higher end amps, preamps and integrated amps, no receivers)

You will have no problem driving your Polk speakers.

Your room, speaker placement and sitting position will have a bigger impact then you can imagine. Bright speakers and poor acoustics (especially hard reflectve surfaces) can be made better through equalization but the placement some floor carpets, upholstered furniture or moving your seating position forward of the rear wall will help

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: TWG1572
Originally Posted By: dparm

I recommend you consider Marantz, which is Denon's higher-end brand.


I did look at Marantz, but the price points seemed like they got out of my range. The cheaper ones didn't seem to be well reviewed. I'll dig though the website again - I know quite a few people recommended them.


The SR5008 is the cheapest midrange one they offer. You might be able to find a 5007 (last year's model) on closeout, but yes, they do tend to be priced higher.

I have the SR5005 which has some pretty beefy amps. It doesn't have 4K, but I could care less. The big amps, top-end Audyssey, and other features make it an absolute joy to own. It it pretty obvious why there's a price premium.

As for the M70s needing a lot of power, there is some truth in it. Cranking up the power on a mediocre amp is going to send less-than-optimal power to them, which can be damaging in the long run. It's better to OVERBUY on amp power, as unclean power causes problems. I bi-amp my RTiA7s to ensure they get all the power they can. That's why I recommended the X2000 -- it appears to have a good amp configuration.

 

[97tbird]

The Onkyo or the Yamaha.
(biased)

 

[apwillard1986]

I am biased toward Onkyo or Yamaha as well. I have had consistently pleasing experiences with both.

 

[Quattro Pete]

As I noted in your other thread, your basement is going to be a challenging environment to manage from an acoustical perspective. To help tame it, I think good room EQ/calibration system will be important. Denon's (and Onkyo's) Audyssey trumps Yahama's YPAO, hence I would probably lean towards Denon here. I like the Marantz suggestion above as well.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
As I noted in your other thread, your basement is going to be a challenging environment to manage from an acoustical perspective. To help tame it, I think good room EQ/calibration system will be important. Denon's (and Onkyo's) Audyssey trumps Yahama's YPAO, hence I would probably lean towards Denon here. I like the Marantz suggestion above as well.


I like all of this. I don't believe that at a reasonable volume level (at volumes the receiver can handle without clipping) many people would be able to hear a difference between receivers costing similar amounts. What would make a difference would be the ability to tune itself to the room acoustics, which Audyssey will do better than Yamaha (or so I'm led to believe from avsforum). I'm not sure if that will matter in stereo (I listen to music with no DSP) but for surround that will be a huge improvement in sound quality. After that it would just be reliability.

What I know more about (because I have them) is your speakers. The all over the place reviews are probably more a factor of who's listening than anything else. They aren't really marketed towards anyone so they're bought by everyone. They should be marketed towards home theater or non-bass filled reasonable volume music. I find them to be pretty average in power requirement/sensitivity. They absolutely will not deliver large amounts and/or deep bass, so I can see how someone might think they needed a lot of power if that's what they were after. There are better speakers for that, with larger woofers. Or tons of powered subwoofers available. I have a monitor setup in my basement recroom / theater area. I'm pretty satisfied, and really you should be able to pick up some Monitor bookshelves and a center for under 200 bucks if you watch newegg. In our living room I just have Paradigms in stereo. The Polks don't really image as well, nor do they have lows as deep/loud, but at 1/4 the price who would complain? In a movie I wouldn't be able to tell you which I was listening to, and that's a compliment to the Polks.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
I'm pretty satisfied, and really you should be able to pick up some Monitor bookshelves and a center for under 200 bucks if you watch newegg.

His issue is that he has a very large room to work with (18x40x ??? height) We don't know if it's open to additional rooms/areas that would further make this more challenging to amplify correctly. It can actually take quite a bit of amp power to fill an area like that with adequate SPL. So, it also helps to have fairly efficient speakers. If you compare bookshelf vs floorstanding speakers from the same model line, you will normally see the floorstanders are a few dB more efficient, so I think it is a good idea to go with floorstanders in his particular case. However, even floorstanders will typically not deliver impactfull bass in such large rooms, so yes, he'll be well served by a good sub or two to round out the low end.

My basement is around 30x30, fairly open. I've got two amps delivering about 2x120 Watt each (so 4x120 in total). These are used to power 4 bookshelf speakers. They're mounted near the ceiling, hence using floorstanders would have been impractical. Then I have two 12" selfpowered subs. This is for audio only, no surround sound. And to be honest, I could use more - more power and more subs. Having more efficient speakers would have helped as well.

 

[dparm]

Agreed, Pete. His room is enormous and you'll want the best correction technology possible, as I said. One of my old amps had the basic Audyssey implementation, and when I stepped up to the Marantz with the high-end Audyssey, it made a massive improvement.

I would check the manuals or even ask the manufacturers if the bi-amp capability truly dedicates extra amps for that purpose. Some do not. It would certainly help provide the power needed for that space.

 

[TWG1572]

Quattro Pete - your comments from the last thread were what pushed me into the floorstander category. I'll have to measure the room, but ceilings are 7-8 foot depending on where the ductwork ran. There is also a bedroom off it with french doors, so if those are open there's some more space as well. The TV and reciever will be on one of the short walls of the rectangle, with the couches something like 16' IIRC away. It's a large space, no two ways about it.

I can pick up a refurbished Marantz SR5006 for $449. I haven't had time to do the detailed research on differences and bi-amping, but I'm suspecting that may be $40 well spent compared to the Denon X2000 at $399?

 

[bepperb]

For what it's worth I have the Monitor 70's in front and the 30's (their smallest bookshelf in that series) in the rear. I've never used the bookshelves as 'mains' nor have I done and a/b test with them. I'm sure the smaller speakers are both less sensitive and can handle a lot less power. But I set them to "small" which takes away their bass which is a decent compromise. I have one 12" sub and I find my setup ideal. On the other hand my rec area is 600 sq ft with 7'4" ceilings, so less volume to fill.

Still, even with the next up MTM arrangement (IIRC the Monitor 40 or 45) it's probably only another 50 dollars or so. Or get a pair of the smaller bookshelves and move up to a 7.1 setup if that isn't enough. Wow, spending other people's money is easy!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Still, even with the next up MTM arrangement (IIRC the Monitor 40 or 45) it's probably only another 50 dollars or so.

I have a pair of the 40s... they're decent entry level speakers. Maybe not the most detailed speakers I've heard, but good bang for the buck for sure. They'll certainly work nicely as surrounds in the OP's setup.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: TWG1572

I can pick up a refurbished Marantz SR5006 for $449. I haven't had time to do the detailed research on differences and bi-amping, but I'm suspecting that may be $40 well spent compared to the Denon X2000 at $399?



The X2000 already has discrete amps pushing 95w across all channels from 20-20,000Hz, so it's pretty stout. With the Marantz you get a little bit more power, but you will be missing out on some of the features the new amps have (4K support, more HDMI ports, network capabilities, etc). Warranty won't be as good on refurb either. The Denon looks to be a good value already, so I wouldn't bother with the SR5006. If you could get a good deal on the SR6006, that would be a very good choice.

If you truly want to future-proof things, look for full pre-amp connectivity. That will push the price way up though.

 

[dparm]

I meant to ask: do you listen to your movies and music at reference levels?

 

[aquariuscsm]

I had a Yamaha A-1000 integrated amp in the early 80s that I loved! I'd go with the Yamaha out of the ones on your list.