Which bypass filter: Amsoil or Motorguard?

[Horatio]

What about disposal of the used rolls? I assume keeping a bucket nearby to collect them and take them to recycling is the best way?

I'm pretty interested in adding a bypass filter to my Civic. Good discussion!

Greg

 

[terryr]

I notice that they can only be used as bypass for oil, yet are used as full flow for gas or tranny. What is the flow rates of these filters?

 

[Mykro]

quote:

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Originally posted by terryr:
I notice that they can only be used as bypass for oil, yet are used as full flow for gas or tranny. What is the flow rates of these filters?

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I have 3 Frantz Filters on my PSD truck.
Flow rate is from 1 to 2 qrts per minute depending on temperature of the oil.The Engine oil and Tranny are installed as bypass (Not full flow)..Only a small portion of oil is going through the filter.. The fuel line is installed as inline.

 

[Doug C]

Well, you learn something new every day! I always thought it was a "JC Whitney myth".

Live and learn!

Cheers,

Doug in Colorado

 

[Valk1500]

Ralph, when using the M-30 on a 5.4L Triton would it be better to use a more restrictive full flow filter like the Motorcraft/PureOne or Mobile 1? That way you would divert more oil thru the bypass element than say a less restrictive filter like the K&N?

All this just has me thinking? How does this effect cooling of the oil one way or the other?

Is the hose you used in the Camry Aeroquip hose? Is that the hose you would recommend?

 

[RalphPWood]

I have one of the JC Whitney type filters that is over 30 years old. They had the quality of the Motor Guard but they were impractical because they only took half a roll of paper and they were messy to deal with. They were pretty with the finned aluminum housing. I saw an ad in a Popular Science magazine awhile back. They were called a Stilco Condor 185.00 was the price. There was also a Virdin Permabilt. There are people that still brag about how clean their oil is using them. Like any tp filter they clean about 100 times better than a full flow filter. Only about 10 times better than most high quality bypass filters. I didn't get mine from JC Whitney. I got it from the company in San Diego. I considered selling them. That was about the same time that Motor Guard came out. Nothing could compare to the Motor Guard at the time. Nothing has changed. Frantz was the only one that could come close. One guy on a forum said the filters were a wierd filter from a weird state. He said they had a cult following. That's not too far from the truth.

The Motor Guard appears to be a full flow ATF filter because it doesn't need an external orifice fitting. It can be drilled internally. All you need is to run the hose to it on the way to the radiator. When I did my first ATF filter they were still experimental. I removed a pipe plug from the high accumulator for pressure and returned the clean fluid to the oil pan with a self tapping hollow bolt. It only filtered in drive but that was enough. It was a Buick dynaflow 1961. The Motor Guard has the advantage for fuel because they are designed to be a one pass filter. They have better seal at the core. A little leakage around the core is no big deal for lube oil. It is a big deal for fuel or air. One problem with toilet paper filters is they were designed when toilet paper was1 1/2". Instead of changing their filter for the new 1 5/8" paper they came out with their own elements. Since I have to make my own internal parts for the Motor Guard it is easy to cut them for 1 5/8" core tp. When Motor Guard realized that most vehicle owners have been brainwashed into thinking oil is supposed to get dirty and be changed they beefed up the filters and epoxy coated them and sold them for industrial use. The factory polypropylene parts can't take hot oil or fuel.
The Motor Guard can clean fuel at about 1GPM at about 5 PSI. I did the testing at 3 1/2 PSI. I use a VITON 0-ring for fuel.
There are the people that won't buy the filters unless they use an expensive element. There are the people that won't buy the filters unless the element costs less than an oil change. I tell people if they want an expensive element that cleans oil as good as a roll of tp drop a 20.00 bill in with the tp.

Toilet paper is nothing more than high quality cellulose which is the finest oil filter known to man. A lot better than micro glass. A long life filter is one that doesn't clean oil.

Ralph

 

[RalphPWood]

quote:

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Originally posted by Valk1500:
Ralph, when using the M-30 on a 5.4L Triton would it be better to use a more restrictive full flow filter like the Motorcraft/PureOne or Mobile 1? That way you would divert more oil thru the bypass element than say a less restrictive filter like the K&N?
All this just has me thinking? How does this effect cooling of the oil one way or the other?
Is the hose you used in the Camry Aeroquip hose? Is that the hose you would recommend?

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Valk1500,
If you are using a Perma-Cool sandwich adapter the adapter determines how much oil goes thru the Motor Guard. All of the oil goes thru the full flow filter. The Motor Guard takes all it can handle. The rest of the oil goes directly to the full flow filter thru the relief valve. Think of the Motor Guard as a restricted oil cooler. The oil has to find another way to the full flow filter. If you have a GM adapter with no relief the oil will go thru the stock relief to the engine bypassing both filters. It doesn't make much difference which full flow filter you use the Motor Guard is doing all the work. The only reason we change the full flow filter is it is paper and will eventually break down like an old book. If you had a full flow filter like a stainless element you could forget it. May be check it every year or so for leaks.
The filter has little effect on cooling. If cool air is hitting it it will do some cooling. If you want to use the Motor Guard with an oil cooler use larger hose such as 3/8 or 1/2 and tell me to drill the filter internally to increase the flow. When you drill a Motor Guard it will only work with a sandwich adapter or ATF.
It is Aeroquip. There are a lot of good hoses, I just bought a reel of Boston Weatherhead hose that is designed for rugged use. There is no steel in it but it has three plys of strength.

Ralph

 

[Rat407]

I was just wondering. I read through this post but nobody has stated how hard it is to dispose of the TP once it is changed out. Where in the US can you take an oil soaked TP roll to for disposal. Around here in NC they will not take a regular spin on filter unless it has been crushed. I know Advance Auto will take your used oil but not your filter. This system sounds like a gold mine find. As of now I am able to take my used spin on filters to the Air Force Base Auto Hobby Shop and they will dispose of them for me. I never really asked if they will take an oil soaked TP roll, will have to do that this week.

Oh and the TP that we use here at least is Scott, as my friends sister calls it, "John Wayne" TP.

I would guess to say that is the brand and type to use?

Thanks

 

[Bio-T]

I just put the used TP filter in a coffee can with the lid on it. Then in the spring and fall I burn them with my leaves. Keeps the fire going good. I know about the smoke in the air, but I also don't want them in my landfill. I also burn my FF in the same pile, then dispose of the skeleton in the regular trash.

 

[Steve S]

Put the roll of tp in a plastic bag and put it in the garbage can. Really who would consider tp as an oil filter.

 

[Mykro]

So what do you guys do with your oil soaked spin on filters?? Throw them in the trash? What does everyone around the world do with their oil soaked spin on filters?? I bet they all end up in the landfills anyway.. So what would be the difference between throwing away your spin on filters and the TP element??
I don't have to change my oil every 3,000 miles..
I don't have to ever change my oil at all for that matter..It always stays clean..Therefore I don't have to throw away my oil or give it up to a place to recycle it?? Or do they really recycle it? come to think of it where does all that used oil end up anyway?? Is it recycled for use in new motor oil ?? It actually can be you know... All they would have to do is filter the used oil submicronically (Which I do already) and replenish any additives (Which I do already) and resell it to the public!! I'm doing my part to conserve resources (Oil) And I have reduced pollution into the enviroment. I not only have
100% clean oil running through my Engine and Transmission, I also have a Frantz bypass Filtering the fuel which helps to keep my injectors clean 100% of the time and which helps to curb emissions into the atmosphere and help my fuel economy too.

[ November 30, 2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Mykro ]

 

[therion]

quote:

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Originally posted by Valk1500:
Motor Guard will go into operation on a 98' F150 5.4L in a few days.

Read so much on these, wish I had it when the truck was new, it has 67,000 miles already. ugh!!

The auto trans will be getting a Motor Guard next...

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Yeah i feel the same way. I got 62,000 miles and am swapping to Synthetic tranny fluid, and Bypass system

 

[therion]

I agree the TP idea is good. But what i dont understand is how does the TP not fall apart and get peices of paper in your oil??

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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But what i dont understand is how does the TP not fall apart and get peices of paper in your oil??

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It's not like you're hitting it with a garden hose. Unless subjected to some violent insult ...I would imagine that the "slow flow" would have a hard time pushing anything through the entire roll to get it to other end as to allow anything to enter the engine (remember the oil is traveling the long way through the roll). That is, try tearing the bottom of the roll by hitting it on the top ...even with a garden hose is very unlikely. This is almost like ground filtering water (your septic system) ... a mild hydrostatic pressure is applied (actually a low flow rate has it's velocity greatly lowered by going from a small line to a LARGE cavity) ..and you leach clean oil.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by therion:
I agree the TP idea is good. But what i dont understand is how does the TP not fall apart and get peices of paper in your oil??

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I'm not a toilet paper oil filter fan, but paper strength in oil not a problem.

Try soaking some toilet paper in oil and checking how string it is. Oil doesn't weaken it as much as water.

Also, the TP filters are bypass filters and only see a relatively small percentage of the total oil flow. As a result the velocity of the oil going through the paper is fairly low and the paper is constrained by the housing.

[ January 25, 2004, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

 

[therion]

oh ok cool. Now Amsoil has easy kits like the BMK-13 for $150.

How do i know what the heck i need for the tp setup. geez, i figured out i needed the Perma-cool dual remote mount, and i need to find some sort of filter - preferably Motor Guard and then i need all the hoses?? it seems like it will take me weeks just to figure out what i need to make it work, ****.

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by therion:
oh ok cool. Now Amsoil has easy kits like the BMK-13 for $150.

How do i know what the heck i need for the tp setup. geez, i figured out i needed the Perma-cool dual remote mount, and i need to find some sort of filter - preferably Motor Guard and then i need all the hoses?? it seems like it will take me weeks just to figure out what i need to make it work, ****.

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Hahaha, too funny, also what gets me is that you are relying on common hose clamps and non-hydraulic hose to carry your oil from the engine to the filter and back. If one of those hoses burst, or comes off, it will take about 3-5 minutes to empty all of your oil on the ground!!

Both Amsoil by-pass systems BMK 11(single filter) and the BMK 13(dual remote) come with hydraulic fitting, 500 psi hydraulic hose that has an abrasion resistant protection.

granted you will never need the 500 psi, but it's nice know that your setup will last a long time.

 

[therion]

Ok thanks i might just go with the BMK13 like i planned.

Unless someone can recommend a good tp kit for UNDER $200 w/ Hydraulic fittings.

Only thing that gets me about the Amsoil is that it is expensive for the filters to replace. Tp is cheaper.

[ January 26, 2004, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: therion ]

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by therion:

Only thing that gets me about the Amsoil is that it is expensive for the filters to replace. Tp is cheaper.

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Yes but you are talking 20-30,000 miles for each replacement.

 

[therion]

quote:

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Originally posted by msparks:

quote:

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Originally posted by therion:

Only thing that gets me about the Amsoil is that it is expensive for the filters to replace. Tp is cheaper.

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Yes but you are talking 20-30,000 miles for each replacement.

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And then theres the concept that the TP traps dirt better than the wooden element in amsoil...