What oil flows best in -5 degree weather.

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Here's a question. Let's say you strained those lumps out in a -5 freezer. What's left?


The statement that minerals have waxes and synthetic do not is false.

Yes, the base stocks are different, and minerals CAN have waxes, but the synthetics have additives, that either contain, or behave as waxes.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4120822/&quot%3BWaxy&quot%3B_oil_a

A 5W passes the 5W tests...regardless of whether it's synthetic or dino...and Neither pass the 0W test, or they Must be labelled 0W.


However the M1 cold pour test does not indicate that at -40F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnagT6wKfmY


OK tig1, I am going to type very very slowly, just for you, so maybe you can get that which we have been over ... and over .... and over ... so many times.

Pour point is not used in evaluating cold weather performance of engine oils.

it WAS but that proved to be pretty well useless.

So they use CCS (cold cranking simulator), and MRV (ability to flow into the pick-up)

These are the parameters that Define the W grade.

and YES, if an oil meets 0W, then it Must be labelled 0W...thus two 5Ws meet the 5W test.

Do you disagree with me ?

(obviously, as you wheel out this and the Esso test at every juncture...but in that you disagree with the SAE and API as well, so I'm in good company)


At -40 the video just shows the wax where 0 to -10 won't. Just a demo to show that wax does exist. Nothing else implied. Once again you haven't read all I had to say on the subject. At every juncture?

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I was under the impression that paraffin wax is not like regular wax. Softer and much smaller molecules


Here is a video from M1 showing the flow rate of 5-30 synthetic compared to a semi-synthetic at -40F. At the 2:40 mark you begin to see the wax formations in the semi syn. Of course this test is performed in much colder temps than the OP is concerned about, but does show how the wax can separate at extreme cold temps in dino or even semi syn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnagT6wKfmY





The video is good but the question is regarding -5F. Anyway point taken.

That guy with the 1Mobil shirt doesn’t know the logo is backwards? Shame.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I was under the impression that paraffin wax is not like regular wax. Softer and much smaller molecules


Here is a video from M1 showing the flow rate of 5-30 synthetic compared to a semi-synthetic at -40F. At the 2:40 mark you begin to see the wax formations in the semi syn. Of course this test is performed in much colder temps than the OP is concerned about, but does show how the wax can separate at extreme cold temps in dino or even semi syn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnagT6wKfmY





The video is good but the question is regarding -5F. Anyway point taken.

That guy with the 1Mobil shirt doesn’t know the logo is backwards? Shame.


Nope, it's correct, logo wise that is.

 

[Ducked]

Hot oil

 

[PimTac]

It’s 1 Mobil.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Use either Pennzoil Platinum 5W20 or Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20 in your Accord.

Lock thread

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The statement that minerals have waxes and synthetic do not is false.

Yes, the base stocks are different, and minerals CAN have waxes, but the synthetics have additives, that either contain, or behave as waxes.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4120822/&quot%3BWaxy&quot%3B_oil_a

A 5W passes the 5W tests...regardless of whether it's synthetic or dino...and Neither pass the 0W test, or they Must be labelled 0W.


However the M1 cold pour test does not indicate that at -40F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnagT6wKfmY


OK tig1, I am going to type very very slowly, just for you, so maybe you can get that which we have been over ... and over .... and over ... so many times.

Pour point is not used in evaluating cold weather performance of engine oils.

it WAS but that proved to be pretty well useless.

So they use CCS (cold cranking simulator), and MRV (ability to flow into the pick-up)

These are the parameters that Define the W grade.

and YES, if an oil meets 0W, then it Must be labelled 0W...thus two 5Ws meet the 5W test.

Do you disagree with me ?

(obviously, as you wheel out this and the Esso test at every juncture...but in that you disagree with the SAE and API as well, so I'm in good company)


At -40 the video just shows the wax where 0 to -10 won't. Just a demo to show that wax does exist. Nothing else implied. Once again you haven't read all I had to say on the subject. At every juncture?

Tig1...my statement was that both 5Ws pass the same "5W" tests, and if they pass the 0W tests, they Must be labelled as a 0W (therefore they are Not a 5W).

You stated "however the M1 cold pour test does not show that at -40F"...then posted a video of two oils POURING at -40f.

WHY ?

It doesn't counter what I said about oils labelled under J300 requiring to be labelled as the lowest they achieve (you said the video doesn't show that is true)

How ?

How does your video refute what I said about J300...

....handwaving..."I just wanted to show wax"...typical.

I read your post...you just don't understand (among many, many things oil related) how oils are rated, an what goes on inside engines (resulting in them coming up with a rating system).

Go back and tell me what your video refutes about my statements regarding oil ratings...please.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
It’s 1 Mobil.


Thought you were referring to the patch below the large 1.

 

[tig1]

Shannow,
For some reason you have confused the 5w test to my point of showing dino and even semi syn has wax in it and it shows up in extreme cold test, but M1 5-30 doesn't. Just sayin. Have a good day, Mate.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Shannow, remember no dino conventional GroupII oil is rated "0w". Wonder why that is? Waxes in GroupII.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Shannow, remember no dino conventional GroupII oil is rated "0w". Wonder why that is? Waxes in GroupII.


Oh, I agree...but there Are 0W blends.

The additives, even in synthetics introduce wax like substances into the finished products, which need PPDs to manage it.

statement was that synthetic is wax free...that's false.
statement was the synthetic "flowed" better at -5C...that's false.

I posited that 5Ws are 5Ws, and if they achieved 0W, they WOULD HAVE to be labelled as such and got a 5W at -40 video....which was subsequently explained away as showing the wax issue.

Why people insist that videos showing oils falling out of bottles, intentionally below their test temperatures as evidence to what "flows better" at -F (or freezing) makes no sense to me (nor should it to any of us).

It's intended to make a point that simply isn't there.

 

[dnewton3]

blah, blah, blah ...
yada, yada, yada ...


There are only two things to concern yourself with in terms of cold temps:
1) wear trends
2) cold start cranking


Want to know what's "best"? Then you'll have to spend a metric ton of time and money to find out.
Want to know what will work well? Just about any 5w-20 you can find as long as it's API licensed.

The temps you describe do NOT, in any manner, require a syn. If you "want" to use one, then go for it. Whatever makes you sleep well at night is fine by me. But I'll lay a dollar to your dime that the engine will not know about, or care about, the difference. I've seen no evidence, viewing thousands upon thousands of UOAs, that there's significant wear difference using different base stocks of the same grade in the environmental conditions you describe. (5w-20 syn vs a 5w-20 dino down to -5F).

If this were an older IDI diesel, that relied on cranking speed to get decent heat into compression for ignition, then maybe a super-duper syn might make a difference in getting the thing started. That's not the case here, so it's moot.

But hey - don't let facts and data get in the way of a good ol' fashioned BITOG bench race.

 

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
blah, blah, blah ...
yada, yada, yada ...


There are only two things to concern yourself with in terms of cold temps:
1) wear trends
2) cold start cranking


Want to know what's "best"? Then you'll have to spend a metric ton of time and money to find out.
Want to know what will work well? Just about any 5w-20 you can find as long as it's API licensed.

The temps you describe do NOT, in any manner, require a syn. If you "want" to use one, then go for it. Whatever makes you sleep well at night is fine by me. But I'll lay a dollar to your dime that the engine will not know about, or care about, the difference. I've seen no evidence, viewing thousands upon thousands of UOAs, that there's significant wear difference using different base stocks of the same grade in the environmental conditions you describe. (5w-20 syn vs a 5w-20 dino down to -5F).

If this were an older IDI diesel, that relied on cranking speed to get decent heat into compression for ignition, then maybe a super-duper syn might make a difference in getting the thing started. That's not the case here, so it's moot.

But hey - don't let facts and data get in the way of a good ol' fashioned BITOG bench race.



I guess using ST 5w30 conventional is killing my 3.8 bonneville engine. NOT!

Thanks for setting the record straight Dnewton

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

A 5W passes the 5W tests...regardless of whether it's synthetic or dino...and Neither pass the 0W test, or they Must be labelled 0W.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3


The temps you describe do NOT, in any manner, require a syn. If you "want" to use one, then go for it. Whatever makes you sleep well at night is fine by me. But I'll lay a dollar to your dime that the engine will not know about, or care about, the difference. I've seen no evidence, viewing thousands upon thousands of UOAs, that there's significant wear difference using different base stocks of the same grade in the environmental conditions you describe. (5w-20 syn vs a 5w-20 dino down to -5F).

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I was under the impression that paraffin wax is not like regular wax. Softer and much smaller molecules


If I'd ever had reason to guess what, if anything, "regular wax" meant (I never have, since that's an American usage of "regular") I'd have guessed it meant paraffin wax, if anything.

What does it mean?

Bee?

Ear?

 

[bbhero]

How about candle wax???? That's the most likely answer here. People here used candles at times... Especially if power was lost my family used was candles when we lost electric power in the early 1980s when I was 6 yrs old.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
statement was that synthetic is wax free...that's false.
Syn is way lower on waxes.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
statement was the synthetic "flowed" better at -5C...that's false.

It was -5F, not C, which is -20C. I thought that would be cold enough to see some differences between GroupII conventional and GroupIII syn. Years ago I left a small assortment of dino and syn oils outside to 0F overnight, and I seem to remember the syn was less (low-shear) viscous anyway. "Mo' liquidy" is the tech term for it.

Bottom line, we have been programmed to believe that faster cranking and less viscous oil from a 0w20 is better for engines than anything else. It has always sounded reasonable to me, especially at -20C (-5F).
Until somebody has proof that thicker cold oil is better for an engine, I'll cling to my belief that less viscous oil gets to parts quicker on cold starts.

"The easier and quicker oil flow also promotes faster lubrication of internal engine parts when the engine does start. " --- Lycoming Engines engineering recommendations, https://www.lycoming.com/content/operating-cold-weather

 

[HowAboutThis]

Having lived in ND/MN for many decades before moving, I ALWAYS ran synthetic Nov-Apr and either syn or if I could find an amazing sale on conventional the rest of the months. A car starts much easier on synthetic. It's funny how so many are saying "if there's a difference it's only going to be for a minute or two." The most wear occurs at startup for a typical driver. Use 0w20 or 5w20 of any major brand in synthetic. Your car will thank you and if you change yourself you'll spend an extra $10 tops. Just do it.



Originally Posted By: Bill7
Hi,

I have a 2007 Honda Accord 4 cylinder with 39,000 miles. I've moved to a location where it often hits -5 degrees Farenheit in the winter.
Will conventional 5W-20 oil flow ok and not cause engine wear at cold weather startups at -5 degrees Farenheit?

Is Synthetic oil even needed at all? If so, is Penzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20 the best choice?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Bill

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
How about candle wax???? That's the most likely answer here. People here used candles at times... Especially if power was lost my family used was candles when we lost electric power in the early 1980s when I was 6 yrs old.


Yep,same here. Power would go out,my parents or grandparents (depending on where we were,we always spent weekends visiting our grandparents) would always light candles,and we'd always play with the melted wax that would drip down.