What oil flows best in -5 degree weather.

[fdcg27]

Any oil that meets the 5W qualification does so at -30C or -22F.
-5F would be no problem for any 5W oil without regard to basestock blend used.
You want the best flow at -5F?
You'll find that in a 0W, either M1 AFE or EP. QSUD is also pretty good with PP a tad thicker at the 0W end of things.
If I were really concerned about cold starts in below zero conditions, I'd run a 0W.
I used to use either GC or M1 AFE 0W-30 in our older Accords over the winter as well as in our '09 Forester, for all of which 5W-30 was the recommended grade.
Before that, I used lots of the pre AFE M1 0W-30 in our 3.0 Aerostar year round, with the Vulcan having 5W-30 as its recommended grade.
No harm in using a 0W qualified oil in any application.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Bill7
Thanks for your reply. I know Honda backspeced these cars to 0W-20, but still I feel better using 5W-20 as the original owner's manual specifies. Its just a question of whether conventional 5W-20 is safe to use at cold startup at -5 degrees Farenheit. Is it waxed and maple syrup like thick, or does it flow easily at -5 degrees Farenheit?


Dino does have waxes in it that tends to solidify at extreme temps. Safe? Probably. The best? No.


LOL "safe...probably" ????

You are being disingenuous here tig.

Safe, of course

10W, and even 15W are safe, to cast aspersions around 5W at 20C is ridiculous.


That's my experience and I'ma stickin two it.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

0W oil

 

[andyd]

0w20 is best for the startup, not so great when hot. Sufficient. Sure. Probably. It is just a matter of preference. In the BMWs, 10w40 was my winter oil, I started the Borman6 at -14F.

 

[supton]

0W20 flows easiest and will make the least load on the battery. [Don't Honda's tend to go with smaller batteries?] That said, I don't think 5W20 is going to be that much different. How many cold starts will this get, and how up to temp will it get, during the winter? I prefer synthetic but I also am starting to think of using shorter OCI's during winter. Just because.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Mobil1 AFE 0w20 or 0w30 gets my vote for best at -5 deg F. Performs very well on the CCS D5293.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: andyd
0w20 is best for the startup, not so great when hot. Sufficient. Sure. Probably. It is just a matter of preference. In the BMWs, 10w40 was my winter oil, I started the Borman6 at -14F.


I live in Illinois where it gets plenty hot. This last summer we saw 100+ several times this year. With that said I have used 20wt oil for the last 9-10 years and (about 425K miles on the last three Fords I have owned) with most of that 0-20. The M1 0-20 Holds up very well in the extreme heat of summer and extreme cold of winter.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I don't understand the reluctance to use a synthetic 0w-20 instead of a 5w-20 whatever.

In the end, they are all 20 weight oils just like the manufacturer specifies. The 0w oil should protect a bit better during a cold start and might be easier to crank. It's probably a synthetic as well. What's not to like? The cost difference would mean that you might have to give up a couple of cups of coffee over 5K miles. It's a sacrifice any self-respecting BITOG member can find the courage to face especially with the support of an understanding wife and some careful budget planning especially if you've already funded your retirement plan this year. (lol)

The best part is that there is no cost difference at all

Rebates and sales make synthetic cost no more than dino.

The only time I'd use a 5w20 over a 0w20 is there was a really good sale like a clearance sale and they only had 5w20 and not 0w20. Or if you absoilutely HAVE TO have the lowest price with no rebates. In that case, use Smitty's 5w20 when it goes on sale at Kmart a few times a year for $7-8/jug.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: andyd
0w20 is best for the startup, not so great when hot. Sufficient. Sure. Probably. It is just a matter of preference. In the BMWs, 10w40 was my winter oil, I started the Borman6 at -14F.

Not true. 0w20 and 0w30 oils are great when hot. HTHS is a 302 deg F test that says the oil film holds up just as well as a 5wXX or 10wXX.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Dino does have waxes in it that tends to solidify at extreme temps. Safe? Probably. The best? No.
Exactly right. Differences between dino conventional GroupII oils & syn GroupIII/IV oils begin to show up the colder it gets. You can see lumpy wax paraffin formations begin to appear in dino oil when it gets very cold.

 

[SilverFusion2010]

Here's a question. Let's say you strained those lumps out in a -5 freezer. What's left?

 

[PimTac]

I was under the impression that paraffin wax is not like regular wax. Softer and much smaller molecules

 

[PimTac]

The question of the moment seems to be , is a 5w-20 conventional thicker than a 5w-20 synthetic. Seems to me there is no difference, only the source and process of the base.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
I was under the impression that paraffin wax is not like regular wax. Softer and much smaller molecules


Here is a video from M1 showing the flow rate of 5-30 synthetic compared to a semi-synthetic at -40F. At the 2:40 mark you begin to see the wax formations in the semi syn. Of course this test is performed in much colder temps than the OP is concerned about, but does show how the wax can separate at extreme cold temps in dino or even semi syn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnagT6wKfmY

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Here's a question. Let's say you strained those lumps out in a -5 freezer. What's left?


The statement that minerals have waxes and synthetic do not is false.

Yes, the base stocks are different, and minerals CAN have waxes, but the synthetics have additives, that either contain, or behave as waxes.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4120822/&quot%3BWaxy&quot%3B_oil_a

A 5W passes the 5W tests...regardless of whether it's synthetic or dino...and Neither pass the 0W test, or they Must be labelled 0W.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: tig1
Dino does have waxes in it that tends to solidify at extreme temps. Safe? Probably. The best? No.
Exactly right. Differences between dino conventional GroupII oils & syn GroupIII/IV oils begin to show up the colder it gets. You can see lumpy wax paraffin formations begin to appear in dino oil when it gets very cold.


This would be true only at temperatures well below the oil's pour point, which is quite a bit lower for the cheapest Grp II 10W-XX than any ambient temperature you'll ever see south of the Arctic Circle.
Put a sample in a clear container in a -10F food freezer and you won't see any clouding however long you leave the oil in there.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Here's a question. Let's say you strained those lumps out in a -5 freezer. What's left?


The statement that minerals have waxes and synthetic do not is false.

Yes, the base stocks are different, and minerals CAN have waxes, but the synthetics have additives, that either contain, or behave as waxes.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4120822/&quot%3BWaxy&quot%3B_oil_a

A 5W passes the 5W tests...regardless of whether it's synthetic or dino...and Neither pass the 0W test, or they Must be labelled 0W.


However the M1 cold pour test does not indicate that at -40F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnagT6wKfmY

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: tig1
Dino does have waxes in it that tends to solidify at extreme temps. Safe? Probably. The best? No.
Exactly right. Differences between dino conventional GroupII oils & syn GroupIII/IV oils begin to show up the colder it gets. You can see lumpy wax paraffin formations begin to appear in dino oil when it gets very cold.


This would be true only at temperatures well below the oil's pour point, which is quite a bit lower for the cheapest Grp II 10W-XX than any ambient temperature you'll ever see south of the Arctic Circle.
Put a sample in a clear container in a -10F food freezer and you won't see any clouding however long you leave the oil in there.


But the waxes are still there just not seen until much colder than -10F.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Here's a question. Let's say you strained those lumps out in a -5 freezer. What's left?


The statement that minerals have waxes and synthetic do not is false.

Yes, the base stocks are different, and minerals CAN have waxes, but the synthetics have additives, that either contain, or behave as waxes.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4120822/&quot%3BWaxy&quot%3B_oil_a

A 5W passes the 5W tests...regardless of whether it's synthetic or dino...and Neither pass the 0W test, or they Must be labelled 0W.


However the M1 cold pour test does not indicate that at -40F.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnagT6wKfmY


OK tig1, I am going to type very very slowly, just for you, so maybe you can get that which we have been over ... and over .... and over ... so many times.

Pour point is not used in evaluating cold weather performance of engine oils.

it WAS but that proved to be pretty well useless.

So they use CCS (cold cranking simulator), and MRV (ability to flow into the pick-up)

These are the parameters that Define the W grade.

and YES, if an oil meets 0W, then it Must be labelled 0W...thus two 5Ws meet the 5W test.

Do you disagree with me ?

(obviously, as you wheel out this and the Esso test at every juncture...but in that you disagree with the SAE and API as well, so I'm in good company)

 

[PimTac]

“A 5W passes the 5W tests...regardless of whether it's synthetic or dino...and Neither pass the 0W test, or they Must be labelled 0W.”



Thanks Shannow for this clarification.