What is a centriful bypass filter?

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,

heyjay - as you are aware most times the "crud is like cement". We clean our centriguge units now at every second OCI ( 125k miles)

Msparks - the links are excellent but your comment;

"Oxidation, Nitration and TBN loss are some limiting factors to extending drains with this system"

should more accurately read;

Oxidation#, Nitration# and TBN# loss are some limiting factors to extending drains!

As to moisture#, fuel#, glycol# and other non particulate contaminants#, well I know of no viable system for automotive use that will satisfactorily remove these things short of an OC.
And of course to repair the relevant problem(s)

I have tried cleanable SS 30micron FF filters in conjunction with the centrifuge too. They worked well but at $A900 were not cost effective here. Our best method has been to use Donaldon's ELF FF filters that stay in place for a complete OCI of 62k miles.
On opening these at the OC point they have always been very clean and could have been used again

With a centrifuge installed the FF filters become virtually useless except to trap major contaminants - and are hopefully never required

We have never prematurely trashed significant oil (in the many millions of miles of using Del 1 and the centrifuges ) during an OC cycle due to the things above marked#

As mentioned elsewhere on here the engine manufacturer's wear metal, soot and TBN limits along with the Oil Company's TBN/TAN/Viscosity criteria are the major limits.
Plus of course we use our own experience,knowledge and intuition and UOAs using trend analysis of course!

I do know that I would never purchase a new commercial vehicle without a centrifuge installed ( some Euro makers fit them as standard )

I know too that I could easily go beyond 62k miles OCI on my current installation ( Del 1 + ELF filters + centrifuge ) but it is my commercial decision not too. It is not a technical decision and never has been

Perhaps I have been lucky!

Regards

[ January 21, 2004, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[msparks]

as per the oilguard site:

quote:

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CENTRIFUGE STYLE BYPASS FILTERS

This type of device is really a centrifugal separator, not a filter. Centrifuge designs feature a non-pressurized housing that contains a rapidly spinning basket. The spinning basket is driven by a turbine that is powered by the pressurized oil flowing through the engine. Particles, via centrifugal force, are separated from the oil and flung to the wall of the basket where they adhere and build up.

Problems with Centrifuge Style Bypass Filters

Inability to Separate Water from Engine Oil.

Why OilGuard is Superior:
Condensation Removal – up to 100cc of condensation water.


Loss of Filtration Efficiency – when operating at low engine speed or in stop-start driving conditions.

Why OilGuard is Superior:
Consistent Filtration – low engine speed or stop-start driving conditions do not decrease filtration performance.


Cleaning of Rotating Components – disassembly required.

Why OilGuard is Superior:
No Rotating Components.


Bearing and Seal Replacement – periodically required.

Why OilGuard is Superior:
No Bearing Replacement Required – only replacement required at service is simple changing of filter o-ring.


Mounting Restrictions – may apply to accommodate return oil flow by gravity.

Why OilGuard is Superior:
No Mounting Restrictions – unit is fully pressurized and can be mounted at any orientation.


Compressed Air Required – necessary to operate the flow control valve.

Why OilGuard is Superior:
No Compressed Air Required – unit does not contain a complex flow control valve.

---

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Msparks - I am not into selling filters!

I am an end user where all of the sales blurb has stopped and the end result matters. I write the cheques - and in my business engines cost $A40000 plus!
If things like oil and filters, trucks and engines don't stack up they don't get a second chance. But I do my homework very well before I buy

On the MANN-HUMMEL centrifuge
a ) I have never replaced any bearings and some have gone over 1m kkms ( 620k miles )
b ) Air is never a problem and is an easy plumbing job - air consumption is next to zero
c ) Oil pressure maintains the unit's efficiency at very low bar readings and our engines operate 96% of their life on the road anyway

I do not need to justify the centrifuge as they have already paid for themselves alone by reducing cam actuated component adjustments and satisfactorily doing the intended task of soot removal etc enabling the extended OCIs

They were "clinically" selected for my use in extending OCIs after trials, UOAs and with the Engine Maker's input. I do NOT do things lightly

And of course I used my 50 odd years experience and Automotive Engineering training with MBenz, Detroit, Volvo and goddam it BMC-Leyland amongst others! And of course my intimate knowledge of the Trucking and Earthmoving Industries as an Owner

And I have been using them now for many years

More Euro vehicle manufacturers are fitting them as standard as we speak! MANN-HUMMEL ( who now own the Glacier-Federal Mogul Spinner operation ) make excellent - if not the very best quality - oil filters you can buy. And they supply many Euro vehicle manufacturers

Regards

 

[cryptokid]

any reasonably sound engine operated within its normal parameters shoudnt have any water in the oil. if you need to use a filter to get rid of water in the oil you are putting a bandaid on the problem instead of finding a solution.

 

[batterycar]

quote:

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The best way to keep wear metals out of the oil so not to worry about it is to run bypass oil filters and especially centrifugal bypass oil systems. I'm sure Doug Hillary can relate some horror stories on what he has found after cleaning out the centrifuge. Sometimes that crud is hard as cement!

---

So, what is a centrifugal bypass? Where would I get one?

 

[msparks]

http://www.spinnerii.com/

http://www.oil-tech.com/spinerii.htm

Though remember a centifuge does not remove moisture, fuel, glycol, and other non-particulate contaminants.

Oxidation, Nitration, and TBN loss are some limiting factors to extending drains with this system.

 

[batterycar]

So... do they make these centrifuges for cars?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Batterycar - yes a selection of smaller Mann-Hummer centrifuges is available I believe.
Some smaller units have a disposable centrifuge cannister - they require no air pressure

Regards

 

[widman]

for what it's worth, I was in a plant a couple of weeks ago where they have switched their Waukesha and CAT natural gas 4000 hp engines over from a group I Low ash product to Chevron's ISOSYN product. they had been testing the centrifuges in some of the engines, removing a kilo or so every 500 hours and changing oil every 1500 hours. Since they changed to the ISOSYN product they are going 3000 hours and the centrifuges are clean on all engines.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Widman - good post.
The area where I live here is a boating paradise

Many inter-island and tourist boats ( large Cats etc ) move hundreds of thousands of people annually. Downtime is very costly!

Many Companies use MTU engines of various sizes. Almost all are fitted with a centrifuge or two and they have reduced wear ratios enormously. Almost every Company carries out UOAs basing their OCIs on them
At present most use mineral lubricants

Regards