Wana see a Tesla humiliate some drag cars?

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Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Millions in taxpayer subsidies for THIS?


You've got to be kidding! The oil industry is not only subsidized by our government, our government provides a military to support oil industry interests!

Scott


All the goverment ever did for the evil oil producers is stand in the way.
 
Has anyone seen any timing slips for a Tesla going down a regular dragstrip?. I'm curious as to what its 1/4 mile time and terminal speed might be.
At one time an electric road going vehicle held the land speed record, as did a steam powered car too.
Clearly electric vehicles have tremendous potential, but they need the enormous amount of R&D that gasoline powered vehicles had to evolve from the crude curiosities of the 19th century to the sophisticated machines of today.

Claud.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Some of the statements here leave me wondering. The electric motor shines here because it develops maximum torque at a stalled rotor. All wheel drive makes a perfect match with an electric motor for getting off the line.

Our company 3rd gen Prius got a battery installed for $1,700 with a same as factory guarantee, not $6,000 as stated above, and it's now past 400K total mileage. Because of the gas mileage, it's still a good deal. Since the transmission is a planetary and not a CVT with belts and never shifts gears and has no reverse (it backs up on one of the 2 electric motors) gear it's going to last a lot longer. The Prius is only a "good deal" for high mileage drivers and in driving one you're still not saving the planet.

And we have several people that drive an electric car to work, plug it in and then drive home. Even before their electrics they followed this pattern and the electric car works for them and is a good deal. They have always had 2 or 3 cars even before this and they use their "real" cars for anything longer.

If my cancer does not kill me and I get to retire an electric car might be worth considering. I can use the 4Runner for real driving and the electric for around town. The 4Runner would benefit from not doing short run driving and I won't have to change the oil on the electric. What's not to like?


I bought a used 2014 Volt in January. It has about 40 mile range, my driving yields closer to 50. So far this year I haven't put gas in it. The Chev dealer filled it up, I haven't had the gas cap off yet. The gallon I have used so far this year was just to run the engine to maintain it. Soon I will make a road trip of 270 miles and that will burn up the gas. So in that regard I like it a lot. I also haven't paid a cent to charge it, various places have free charging, some are businesses. It is also very quick up steep hills and off the line. I only tried it a couple times. Electric motors are full torque at zero rpm. When seeing long lines of freight cars winding through mountains, they are being pulled by electric motors. The electric car is almost as old as the gas car. Older maybe?
My 07 Prius went to daughter, she loves it. Lot of false myths about the Prius, for some reason some people can't accept other ideas.
I like the Volt engineering even better than the Prius, didn't thing that would be the case. I have electric drive for most of my use and can still drive anywhere I want anytime I want and as fast as I want. The new Volts are even better I hear.
As far as government money, none of us would be posting here on the internet if not for "wasted", at the time, government research spending. Radar would not have been invented. No victory over Japan that fast. No modern military. On and on the list goes. Research or subsidy money spent today that seems wasteful may not be at all. If it turns out wasteful so what that's what getting breakthroughs takes.
 
Speaking of electric cars,the Prius' and CMax's I've driven literally throw you back in the seat when you stomp on them. Immediate power.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Where's the pollution tax on the generating plants needed to charge these toys? The fact is they can't survive with out the subsidy.


Exactly correct. It's much the same with residential solar. The Federal subsidies and tax breaks for residential solar installation will end this year. They now estimate as many as 85% of these, "solar companies" will go bust. Because they are not able to survive on their own, without offering the government subsidy's to homeowners. This means a lot of these people installing these units on their roofs, are having it done by companies that won't be around to service them in the future.

Many of the solar panel companies themselves will also evaporate. We all remember the Solyndra scandal. That is going to amount to a drop in the bucket when all these government subsidy's end this year. And these residential solar companies start going broke left and right.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
......Our company 3rd gen Prius got a battery installed for $1,700 with a same as factory guarantee, not $6,000 as stated above, and it's now past 400K total mileage....... What's not to like?


http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota-hybrid-battery-replacement-cost-guide

"Toyota hybrid battery replacement costs

Below is a list of MSRP battery cost details for the various hybrid Toyota models offered since 2001.

•2001-2003 Toyota Prius (1st generation) - $3,649

•2004-2009 Toyota Prius (2nd generation) - $3,939

•2010-2011 Toyota Prius (3rd generation) - $4,080

•2012-2015 Toyota Prius Liftback - $3,939

•2012-2016 Toyota Prius V - $3,939

•2012-2016 Toyota Prius C - $3,807

•2007-2011 Toyota Camry Hybrid - $4,892

•2012-2015 Toyota Camry Hybrid - $4,892

•2013-2015 Toyota Avalon Hybrid - $4,892

•2006-2010 Toyota Highlander Hybrid - $6,198

•2011-2015 Toyota Highlander Hybrid - $6,353"

Even if you subtract the "core credit", it's a lot of money that can buy a lot of gasoline.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Some of the statements here leave me wondering. The electric motor shines here because it develops maximum torque at a stalled rotor. All wheel drive makes a perfect match with an electric motor for getting off the line.

Our company 3rd gen Prius got a battery installed for $1,700 with a same as factory guarantee, not $6,000 as stated above, and it's now past 400K total mileage. Because of the gas mileage, it's still a good deal. Since the transmission is a planetary and not a CVT with belts and never shifts gears and has no reverse (it backs up on one of the 2 electric motors) gear it's going to last a lot longer. The Prius is only a "good deal" for high mileage drivers and in driving one you're still not saving the planet.

And we have several people that drive an electric car to work, plug it in and then drive home. Even before their electrics they followed this pattern and the electric car works for them and is a good deal. They have always had 2 or 3 cars even before this and they use their "real" cars for anything longer.

If my cancer does not kill me and I get to retire an electric car might be worth considering. I can use the 4Runner for real driving and the electric for around town. The 4Runner would benefit from not doing short run driving and I won't have to change the oil on the electric. What's not to like?


I bought a used 2014 Volt in January. It has about 40 mile range, my driving yields closer to 50. So far this year I haven't put gas in it. The Chev dealer filled it up, I haven't had the gas cap off yet. The gallon I have used so far this year was just to run the engine to maintain it. Soon I will make a road trip of 270 miles and that will burn up the gas. So in that regard I like it a lot. I also haven't paid a cent to charge it, various places have free charging, some are businesses. It is also very quick up steep hills and off the line. I only tried it a couple times. Electric motors are full torque at zero rpm. When seeing long lines of freight cars winding through mountains, they are being pulled by electric motors. The electric car is almost as old as the gas car. Older maybe?
My 07 Prius went to daughter, she loves it. Lot of false myths about the Prius, for some reason some people can't accept other ideas.
I like the Volt engineering even better than the Prius, didn't thing that would be the case. I have electric drive for most of my use and can still drive anywhere I want anytime I want and as fast as I want. The new Volts are even better I hear.
As far as government money, none of us would be posting here on the internet if not for "wasted", at the time, government research spending. Radar would not have been invented. No victory over Japan that fast. No modern military. On and on the list goes. Research or subsidy money spent today that seems wasteful may not be at all. If it turns out wasteful so what that's what getting breakthroughs takes.
The freight cars are being pulled by oil burning diesels driving generators. Spare me the rest of your fantasy.
 
When the Tesla Subsidy Special was "gutted" for drag racing, how much of the battery pack was removed to save weight and what was the driving range thereafter....1/4 of a mile?
 
AMtrack uses "electric engines" in parts of the Northeast, especially on the underground runs into NYC. CFX, which provides freight service on the same routes uses Uboats and EMDs.
 
When they were talking battery charge - did he say 2% in 1/8th mile?
And if that's what they were running is that a stacked deck for a Tesla?
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Where's the pollution tax on the generating plants needed to charge these toys? The fact is they can't survive with out the subsidy.


Exactly correct. It's much the same with residential solar. The Federal subsidies and tax breaks for residential solar installation will end this year. They now estimate as many as 85% of these, "solar companies" will go bust. Because they are not able to survive on their own, without offering the government subsidy's to homeowners. This means a lot of these people installing these units on their roofs, are having it done by companies that won't be around to service them in the future.

Many of the solar panel companies themselves will also evaporate. We all remember the Solyndra scandal. That is going to amount to a drop in the bucket when all these government subsidy's end this year. And these residential solar companies start going broke left and right.


GWB's solar panel project had superior technology and that costs money to develop. It was no scandal, it was Chinese dumping cheap panels on the market, on purpose, to knock them out of business. Americans don't buy American if it costs more, they buy Chinese.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
It was no scandal, it was Chinese dumping cheap panels on the market, on purpose, to knock them out of business.


It WAS a scandal. Our government had zero business putting a dime of taxpayer money into Solyndra. They KNEW they were going broke, and gave them the money anyway. Full well knowing the U.S. taxpayer would never see a penny of the $535 MILLION ever paid back. It's not an "investment" when you know you're going to lose money. It is a SCANDAL.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Lets see Seattle to Missoula Mt. non stop doing the legal speed limit lets see who gets there first.


This is a good point. While these cars are impressive and fun. In reality they are little more than Jay Leno type expensive toys. And are not the slightest bit practical. Until they find a way to 100% charge the batteries in minutes instead of hours. And have a network of charging stations across the country, they'll be nothing but expensive novelties. Nothing more.

Also, the biggest problem with these cars is the high battery replacement cost. On a Toyota Prius it can run over $6K. Tesla's are no doubt much higher. In high heat desert climates batteries of any type don't last. And they lose output and longevity in frigid climates as well. Perhaps in another 2 or 3 decades, they will be able to develop a charging infrastructure, along with allowing battery technology to catch up enough to solve these problems. But for now they are simply You Tube entertainment, and not much more.


Yes the real picture in life!
 
Tesla has turned out to be a good bet. The gigafactory is forecast to generate $100bn for the Nevada economy over 2 decades.

They open sourced their technology a while ago. India wants to phase out petrol and diesel by 2030. UK and France by 2040. China is now looking at it and they produce a third of the world's vehicles and are the biggest market for cars. Volvo will have only hybrid or full electric vehicles by 2020. BMW will have 12 full electric cars available by 2025.

Elon Musk will go down in history alongside Carl Benz and Henry Ford. He and Tesla have succeeded in changing the automobile industry in a major major way.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Lets see Seattle to Missoula Mt. non stop doing the legal speed limit lets see who gets there first.


This is a good point. While these cars are impressive and fun. In reality they are little more than Jay Leno type expensive toys. And are not the slightest bit practical. Until they find a way to 100% charge the batteries in minutes instead of hours. And have a network of charging stations across the country, they'll be nothing but expensive novelties. Nothing more.
I was recently behind a Tesla in my small town. He was in limp mode with his emergency flashers on and I saw him pull into a vacant lot (There are no charging stations around here). The car was gone the next morning so I suspect it was put on a tow truck and hauled to a charging station. The irony of it was that there were two gas stations a block away.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Tesla has turned out to be a good bet. The gigafactory is forecast to generate $100bn for the Nevada economy over 2 decades.

They open sourced their technology a while ago. India wants to phase out petrol and diesel by 2030. UK and France by 2040. China is now looking at it and they produce a third of the world's vehicles and are the biggest market for cars. Volvo will have only hybrid or full electric vehicles by 2020. BMW will have 12 full electric cars available by 2025.

Elon Musk will go down in history alongside Carl Benz and Henry Ford. He and Tesla have succeeded in changing the automobile industry in a major major way.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This will all take decades. And decades more before it is actually practical, as well as affordable for the AVERAGE consumer. There will always be people who will try and push technology along faster than it is developed to go. Look at Fuel Cell technology. We've had them since the Gemini Program in the early 60's. We keep hearing about Fuel Cell powered hydrogen cars. The problem is they don't expect to have a consumer market developed for at least another 2 decades plus. Today they cost in excess of $300,000.00 each to produce on a very limited, experimental basis.

Then there is the fuel. Hydrogen takes more energy to produce than it makes. So in reality what are you saving? Then you have the availability to deal with. Where do you buy it? Same with charging your Tesla, or Leaf. Sure in time they may have a charging network developed. Just like they may have hydrogen available. But the fact is they don't now. And they won't have any time in the near future. And like it or not, you are using fossil fuel to provide electricity to charge your Tesla or Leaf. Except if you live where you have Nuclear Power. And with the exception of the Watts plant in Tennessee, the last nuclear power plant to be brought on line was over 2 decades ago in 1996. People buying these electric toys now are the same type of people with money to burn, who buy all those overpriced trinkets from Sharper Image.

They can't legislate technology. It has to be developed in the private sector over time. And it requires A LOT of venture capital... Not government subsidies. Yes, there may very well be electric cars in our future. But it's not coming next week, or next year. In the meantime we have You Tube, and wealthy kids to keep us all entertained with their expensive toys they bring out on Saturday night. To impress the dolled up girls in short pants. Remember, Popular Mechanics told me my car would fly 20 years ago.... I'm still buying tires.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
It was no scandal, it was Chinese dumping cheap panels on the market, on purpose, to knock them out of business.


It WAS a scandal. Our government had zero business putting a dime of taxpayer money into Solyndra. They KNEW they were going broke, and gave them the money anyway. Full well knowing the U.S. taxpayer would never see a penny of the $535 MILLION ever paid back. It's not an "investment" when you know you're going to lose money. It is a SCANDAL.


Nope. GWB's Solyndra project was derailed by Chinese dumping cheap and inferior panels to break the competition of Solyndra's superior technology. Period, that is the story. No scandal except fabricated for other reasons. There is no other story. A kid wants to make something called Yahoo, how crazy is that. Google, give me a break who would even think that is something. It's always easy to be the expert after the fact. So easy to criticize the game plays the next day from an arm chair. The government made the internet you are using. They made no money back on it, except now it is a big part of the economy. Just be happy the government is in a position to "waste" money on things like advanced military tech, much of which takes a lot of "wasted money" to discover the advancements.
 
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