Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
The VW turn in was great, my aunt turned in her TDI for $21.5k and bought an Avalon.
Just like Jasper engines, "Never again..."
Just like Jasper engines, "Never again..."
VW diesel turned in for cash
- Thread starter tig1
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: TheKracken
He? Very confusing post TIg1.
OOPS! Another typo. Sorry. "HE" is a friend that started driving VW diesels in the 80s.
He has driven VW diesels since the 80's and just got a fat check from VW for a TDS that ran great and now swears off VW?
Why?
Originally Posted By: TheKracken
He? Very confusing post TIg1.
OOPS! Another typo. Sorry. "HE" is a friend that started driving VW diesels in the 80s.
He has driven VW diesels since the 80's and just got a fat check from VW for a TDS that ran great and now swears off VW?
Why?
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
They knew the rules / they cheated / they got caught / everything else is sour grapes. Including that excuse. You don't like the rules, don't bring those vehicles to the US mkt. Everyone will move on, including VAG.
It's the punitive nature of the EPA and the hysterical reaction of uninformed people in this matter that concern me. I don't think it's so much the 492,000 cars that VW sold over those 6 years that bothers the EPA so much as it is the fact that VW fooled them for so long with just a few simple lines of code. And a college student at the University of West Virginia is the one that actually discovered the fraud, not the EPA. Over the 6 years of TDI sales, there were about 84 million other cars sold in the USA, so the actual impact on total vehicle emissions was miniscule.
So what is the overachieving regulator at the EPA to do? Just shrug his shoulders, say "that's one on me", and levy a mild fine on them? No way. Other manufacturers might try similar things. So levy billions of $ in fines as a deterrent, and make VW sign a consent decree forcing them to develop battery electric cars over the next 10 years. If it wasn't the government that was doing this stuff, that would be called "extortion".
And there is the national press that is always available to whip the public into hysteria every time an automaker runs afoul of regulations. It's always easy to demonize just by saying "See, we told you those greedy so-and-so's don't care about public health when profits are on the line." They could have presented the story by pointing out that the same powertrains were sold in Europe, where reasonable people make reasonable regulations, and that diesels are sold in about 50% of the new cars, and there is no discernible public health problem because of it. But no, where are the big TV ratings if you air a reasonable story? Crank the outrage meter up to 11, and continue whipping the same old whipping boy.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
They knew the rules / they cheated / they got caught / everything else is sour grapes. Including that excuse. You don't like the rules, don't bring those vehicles to the US mkt. Everyone will move on, including VAG.
It's the punitive nature of the EPA and the hysterical reaction of uninformed people in this matter that concern me. I don't think it's so much the 492,000 cars that VW sold over those 6 years that bothers the EPA so much as it is the fact that VW fooled them for so long with just a few simple lines of code. And a college student at the University of West Virginia is the one that actually discovered the fraud, not the EPA. Over the 6 years of TDI sales, there were about 84 million other cars sold in the USA, so the actual impact on total vehicle emissions was miniscule.
So what is the overachieving regulator at the EPA to do? Just shrug his shoulders, say "that's one on me", and levy a mild fine on them? No way. Other manufacturers might try similar things. So levy billions of $ in fines as a deterrent, and make VW sign a consent decree forcing them to develop battery electric cars over the next 10 years. If it wasn't the government that was doing this stuff, that would be called "extortion".
And there is the national press that is always available to whip the public into hysteria every time an automaker runs afoul of regulations. It's always easy to demonize just by saying "See, we told you those greedy so-and-so's don't care about public health when profits are on the line." They could have presented the story by pointing out that the same powertrains were sold in Europe, where reasonable people make reasonable regulations, and that diesels are sold in about 50% of the new cars, and there is no discernible public health problem because of it. But no, where are the big TV ratings if you air a reasonable story? Crank the outrage meter up to 11, and continue whipping the same old whipping boy.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: wemay
They knew the rules / they cheated / they got caught / everything else is sour grapes. Including that excuse. You don't like the rules, don't bring those vehicles to the US mkt. Everyone will move on, including VAG.
It's the punitive nature of the EPA and the hysterical reaction of uninformed people in this matter that concern me. I don't think it's so much the 492,000 cars that VW sold over those 6 years that bothers the EPA so much as it is the fact that VW fooled them for so long with just a few simple lines of code. And a college student at the University of West Virginia is the one that actually discovered the fraud, not the EPA. Over the 6 years of TDI sales, there were about 84 million other cars sold in the USA, so the actual impact on total vehicle emissions was miniscule.
So what is the overachieving regulator at the EPA to do? Just shrug his shoulders, say "that's one on me", and levy a mild fine on them? No way. Other manufacturers might try similar things. So levy billions of $ in fines as a deterrent, and make VW sign a consent decree forcing them to develop battery electric cars over the next 10 years. If it wasn't the government that was doing this stuff, that would be called "extortion".
Outstanding.
Originally Posted By: wemay
They knew the rules / they cheated / they got caught / everything else is sour grapes. Including that excuse. You don't like the rules, don't bring those vehicles to the US mkt. Everyone will move on, including VAG.
It's the punitive nature of the EPA and the hysterical reaction of uninformed people in this matter that concern me. I don't think it's so much the 492,000 cars that VW sold over those 6 years that bothers the EPA so much as it is the fact that VW fooled them for so long with just a few simple lines of code. And a college student at the University of West Virginia is the one that actually discovered the fraud, not the EPA. Over the 6 years of TDI sales, there were about 84 million other cars sold in the USA, so the actual impact on total vehicle emissions was miniscule.
So what is the overachieving regulator at the EPA to do? Just shrug his shoulders, say "that's one on me", and levy a mild fine on them? No way. Other manufacturers might try similar things. So levy billions of $ in fines as a deterrent, and make VW sign a consent decree forcing them to develop battery electric cars over the next 10 years. If it wasn't the government that was doing this stuff, that would be called "extortion".
Outstanding.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: tig1
The scandal with omissions.
Omissions? Or emissions?
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
There is no side for VW. They violated US laws, lied to regulators, consumers and had false advertising violating FTC.
Originally Posted By: tig1
The scandal with omissions.
Omissions? Or emissions?
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
There is no side for VW. They violated US laws, lied to regulators, consumers and had false advertising violating FTC.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: tig1
The scandal with omissions.
Omissions? Or emissions?
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
There is no side for VW. They violated US laws, lied to regulators, consumers and had false advertising violating FTC.
Some people just hate the Federal Govn't and anything they stand for. Whether it's the FTC, NTSB, NHTSA or whatever.
See some of the posts above.....
CAUTION! Thread closing ahead......
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: tig1
The scandal with omissions.
Omissions? Or emissions?
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
There is no side for VW. They violated US laws, lied to regulators, consumers and had false advertising violating FTC.
Some people just hate the Federal Govn't and anything they stand for. Whether it's the FTC, NTSB, NHTSA or whatever.
See some of the posts above.....
CAUTION! Thread closing ahead......
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
That's not true. VW's European-market cars had urea injection, The US-market cars did not.
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
That's not true. VW's European-market cars had urea injection, The US-market cars did not.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: tig1
The scandal with omissions.
Omissions? Or emissions?
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
There is no side for VW. They violated US laws, lied to regulators, consumers and had false advertising violating FTC.
How has the individual consumer suffered damage?
Hasn't the buyback more than compensated these owners for any personal damages?
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: tig1
The scandal with omissions.
Omissions? Or emissions?
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
There is no side for VW. They violated US laws, lied to regulators, consumers and had false advertising violating FTC.
How has the individual consumer suffered damage?
Hasn't the buyback more than compensated these owners for any personal damages?
I for one wish VW never cheated and got into this mess. I test drove a couple of new VW TDI's before buying my GTI. VW of America invited the U.S. automotive press to test the diesel version of the GTI, the GTD in Germany, which was to arrive in the U.S. for the 2015 model year.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
They could have presented the story by pointing out that the same powertrains were sold in Europe, where reasonable people make reasonable regulations, and that diesels are sold in about 50% of the new cars, and there is no discernible public health problem because of it.
I think the air in european cities is not pleasant to breathe. I even notice air pollution in the other US states, after living in California for 10 years.
They could have presented the story by pointing out that the same powertrains were sold in Europe, where reasonable people make reasonable regulations, and that diesels are sold in about 50% of the new cars, and there is no discernible public health problem because of it.
I think the air in european cities is not pleasant to breathe. I even notice air pollution in the other US states, after living in California for 10 years.
Originally Posted By: CT8
The Diesel scandal is probably the only thing that VW has done that makes me wish I had a VW.
The Diesel scandal is probably the only thing that VW has done that makes me wish I had a VW.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: tig1
The scandal with omissions.
Omissions? Or emissions?
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
These are two entirely different regulatory approaches.
EU emissions regulations are focused on reducing greenhouse gasses while those of the US are focused an reducing those pollutants that are a more immediate danger to public health.
VW had to be given a harsh punishment rather than a pass lest others learn that the penalties for willfully violating the CFR are nugatory enough to make the risk of discovery worth taking.
That VAG is among the top three automakers in the world only makes it more vital that they are seen to be penalized heavily for having committed fraud.
A serious lesson for VW as well as a potent deterrent for others.
Apparently a nice deal for a lot of VW TDI owners as well.
Originally Posted By: tig1
The scandal with omissions.
Omissions? Or emissions?
I'm still on VW's side. Every car they sold in the US met European standards. US standards are unnecessarily strict.
These are two entirely different regulatory approaches.
EU emissions regulations are focused on reducing greenhouse gasses while those of the US are focused an reducing those pollutants that are a more immediate danger to public health.
VW had to be given a harsh punishment rather than a pass lest others learn that the penalties for willfully violating the CFR are nugatory enough to make the risk of discovery worth taking.
That VAG is among the top three automakers in the world only makes it more vital that they are seen to be penalized heavily for having committed fraud.
A serious lesson for VW as well as a potent deterrent for others.
Apparently a nice deal for a lot of VW TDI owners as well.
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: TheKracken
He? Very confusing post TIg1.
OOPS! Another typo. Sorry. "HE" is a friend that started driving VW diesels in the 80s.
He has driven VW diesels since the 80's and just got a fat check from VW for a TDS that ran great and now swears off VW?
Why?
He claims that if he doesn't take the cash then the emissions have to be changed to US standards. Result. He claims less MPG and loss of engine performance.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: TheKracken
He? Very confusing post TIg1.
OOPS! Another typo. Sorry. "HE" is a friend that started driving VW diesels in the 80s.
He has driven VW diesels since the 80's and just got a fat check from VW for a TDS that ran great and now swears off VW?
Why?
He claims that if he doesn't take the cash then the emissions have to be changed to US standards. Result. He claims less MPG and loss of engine performance.
Originally Posted By: tig1
He claims that if he doesn't take the cash then the emissions have to be changed to US standards. Result. He claims less MPG and loss of engine performance.
Interesting. Thanks for the follow-up.
He claims that if he doesn't take the cash then the emissions have to be changed to US standards. Result. He claims less MPG and loss of engine performance.
Interesting. Thanks for the follow-up.
- Status
