Does anyone have experience with these in a performance vehicle type application, who also can directly compare them to the CC2 or PSAS4?
VREDESTEIN QUATRAC PRO
- Thread starter Ws6
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The CC2 and PSAS4 are very different tires for different conditions. What driving conditions will you face? How important is snow/winter performance? What is your tire size? 
The Quatrac Pro is billed as a performance all-weather tire, like the Toyo Celsius Sport. Those are the only high performance all-weather tires I know of.
If snow/winter matters, and you're not using a set of winter tires, then either the Quatrac Pro or Celsius Sport is right for you. Otherwise, just get summer tires.
The Quatrac Pro certainly costs less than any Michelin
The Quatrac Pro is billed as a performance all-weather tire, like the Toyo Celsius Sport. Those are the only high performance all-weather tires I know of.
If snow/winter matters, and you're not using a set of winter tires, then either the Quatrac Pro or Celsius Sport is right for you. Otherwise, just get summer tires.
The Quatrac Pro certainly costs less than any Michelin
What category is CC2 in, by comparison?
According to TR, they're all "grand touring all-season" tires, LOL.
Arent the wrg4 pretty high on the speed rating?
edit: some sizes are W-speed rating
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You need to spell black rubber correctly to get good info
Be aware that there are two versions of Michelin CC2, US and EU spec.
www.tyrereviews.com
All tests, Michelin will be compared in many of them.
Be aware that there are two versions of Michelin CC2, US and EU spec.
Vredestein Quatrac Pro
Will the Vredestein Quatrac Pro suit your car? Find the best tyre for your car read 34 reviews for the Vredestein Quatrac Pro and compare to other All Season tyres at tyre reviews
www.tyrereviews.com
All tests, Michelin will be compared in many of them.
Speed rating does not necessarily mean performance dedicated tire.
WRG4 is basically a "central" European winter tire.
Correct but the real question is: are they any less performance than
VREDESTEIN QUATRAC PRO
or CC2?I would suggest answer is: no.
What category is CC2 in, by comparison?
According to TR, they're all "grand touring all-season" tires, LOL.
TR seems to classify all the all-weather (car) tires as grand touring.
However, there can still be some differences. The Quatrac Pro vs the Quatrac 5, and the Celsius Sport vs non-sport, for example. That doesn't mean the difference is huge, but it could still be something.
Michelin billed the original CrossClimate CC1 as a "summer tire homologated for winter use," but the CC2 has strayed from that formula.
Nokian's all-weather tires are also different, as they're much stronger in snow than even other all-weather tires. Basically winter tires that can be used year-round. This is the exact opposite of the CC1 mentioned above.
Speed rating isn't the whole story, as even some winter-only winter tires now carry high speed ratings too.
You need to spell black rubber correctly to get good info
Be aware that there are two versions of Michelin CC2, US and EU spec.
Michelin isn't the only one who does this. In fact, most of the all-weather tires are different between the two markets, but they could be the only ones to use the same name on different tires
The only ones I know of that are the same globally are Vredestein, Hankook, and Kumho.
Toyo's original Celsius was the same globally, but the second generations have diverged. We have the Celsius II, while Europe has the Celsius AS2, which is different. The European AS2 is directional, while the CII we get is not.
They probably are, given their heavier focus on snow. See above.
I'd disagree. Its unknown IMO.
The later gens have evolved somewhat from "winter tire for all year"
Nokian sells a very similar tire in Europe called the WRA4... as a winter tire. There may still be some differences, but they're similar enough to suggest that even the all-weather WRG4 is still a winter tire that can be used year-round.
However, the WRG4 is being replaced by the WRG5, and the European analogue will likely be replaced as well.
Since its impossible to know the tread compound there is no way to definitively say anything.
That is the "invisible" special sauce.
They could use the same molds and be very different tires.
How about UNIROYAL Tiger Paw Touring A/S ? Here are photos I took when at BJs Wholesale in '20 . Took a look at them recently at WALMART and they remain the same .
New : Uniroyal Tiger Paw Touring A/S
Noticed these at BJs Wholesale . They have many deep sipes to base of the tire . May purchase these . Many positive reviews from consumers and are priced close to that of the RT43s' . We've been using the 43s' for many years . Here's the site ...
bobistheoilguy.com
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I'm using them (Alfa romeo), they seem as grippy as Hankook kinergy 4s2, Nokian AS, Pirelli Cinturato AS, Conti Sport 5 on wet and dry, -3°C -> +38°C, not tested on snow.
They are also way smoother than the V shaped All Season , especially at Autobahn speeds (here in Europe, All Seasons are the equivalent of NA "All Weather", they pass the winter tyre test - they feature the 3PMSF markings)
The thread design (mostly longitudinal channels, summer style) says a lot. Lateral grip is amazing. I also have the older model on a smaller car (Quatrac 5), same thread design, it rarely spins on wet starts under brutal acceleration. The Quatrac Pro doesn't.
AFAIK the model is only produced in Holland and Hungary, so the quality must be evenenly high.
More details and tests on Tyrereviews
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Vredestein/Quatrac-Pro.htm
They are also way smoother than the V shaped All Season , especially at Autobahn speeds (here in Europe, All Seasons are the equivalent of NA "All Weather", they pass the winter tyre test - they feature the 3PMSF markings)
The thread design (mostly longitudinal channels, summer style) says a lot. Lateral grip is amazing. I also have the older model on a smaller car (Quatrac 5), same thread design, it rarely spins on wet starts under brutal acceleration. The Quatrac Pro doesn't.
AFAIK the model is only produced in Holland and Hungary, so the quality must be evenenly high.
More details and tests on Tyrereviews
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Vredestein/Quatrac-Pro.htm
I decided to slap some CC2's on the car. Picked up a rock through the tread last night and while I was fixing the tire, I noted that the inner tread is 3-4/32, and with winter coming on, that's not satisfactory. The CC2's were the tire I waffled very hard on prior, and so I decided to give them a go this time. I know on my RAV4 Prime they would actually hook on the front, which is pretty impressive considering that 80% of the 450+ pounds of torque the vehicle (FWD) produces, is headed to them up FRONT. We will see how that translates. I am certain they will be a notch down in handling from the PSAS4's that I had, but I am curious about straight-line traction with the V-shaped tread design. It looks like it will put more rubber in contact with the road as the tread blocks flex to form a "solid" block of rubber as a contact patch. I'll run a 0-60 after they break in, and see if that's the way of it or not.
Well, so far these CC2's are actually extremely similar in dry and wet traction to the PSAS4's. The handling is "softer" all around, but that's a good thing IMO, with this car. Maybe not a different car, but this kindof knocks off the rough edges unless you hit the stiffer suspension modes. The wet 60' times I am seeing at 1.94-1.99 and dry, 1.89-1.90. This is how boringly consistant these tires are. I did this going one direction then the other, at 70% state of charge. And check out those temps! The road and tires were COLD! My very best 0-60 time on PSAS4's was at 85%, in 64*f weather. I managed a 3.39, and with 1' subtracted, 3.18. I'd say in warmer weather with 15% more SoC, these may very will eclipse that. They are already putting down equal and better 60' times in the rain. Truly I thought the PSAS4's would be further ahead, especially in the rain, but I have not tested braking yet. Regardless, I am pleasantly surprised from a 3PMSF tire with 60k treadlife!
This is on wet blacktop with visible standing water in some places, in 35f weather, at 90% SoC, not optimally conditioned. These tires are excellent for straight line traction. Handling is softer than the psas4s, and Id not advise them on something like a Miata or Corvette or similar light car that is all about "feel", but on a heavier vehicle that needs boatloads of traction in all conditions, along with very reapectable handling and long treadlife, they're money. Way better in the wet than I had predicted.
