Very Good Article about the GDI Issues and Oil

[Stumpy]

Solving Gasoline Direct Injection Issues: The facts and fictions of GDI - Engine Builder Magazine

Learn about the challenges and solutions related to Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) in engines. Issues, design flaws, and potential fixes.

www.enginebuildermag.com

 

[FordSVTGuy]

I have a 2.3l ecoboost and at 75,000 miles it runs a bit rough at idle at times. Otherwise the performance is very good. I’d love to have this guy do the engine work he mentioned in the article to my engine… I think it would run much smoother and last longer…

 

[Stumpy]

I wondered about the new "SN+" and "SP" oil ratings but his IN DEPTH explaination in this article of what all can go wrong inside the combustion chamber of a GDI explains why the oil requires new formulations. At least your Ford most likely has the Port Injectors to wash the intake valves clean. Another reason carbon on the intake valves is an issue are the "low drag" or "low friction" valve stem seals. That combined with the thin as piss 0W-whatever motor oil that is so thin it goes right by the seals onto the top of the valves. Only Ford and Toyota went back with Port injectors to bolster their Direct Injection systems. The low drag piston rings are just another reason GDI vehicles drink so much oil. Watch video of GDI rebuilts and techs can squeeze new car piston rings with their bare hands and insert pistons with hand strength only! Before GDI, you had to tap the pistons with a block of wood and a hammer to get them in. There is so much blow by the rings. Car companies are only interested in fractions of an MPG in the test lab in their motor oil recommendations.

 

[OilUzer]

Re: Thin 0W-whatever

According to the internet, "whatever" is much thinner than 0 under normal operating temperatures ... so we shouldn't blame the 0 unless there is more to the story than the viscosity
Obviously some whatevers are thinner than other whatevers

btw, as much as I don't care for DI engines, ours doesn't burn any oil after 124K miles.

 

[ctechbob]

I find it hard to believe that someone paid him to do all that work to an Equinox.

 

[kschachn]

Re: Thin 0W-whatever

According to the internet, "whatever" is much thinner than 0 under normal operating temperatures ... so we shouldn't blame the 0 unless there is more to the story than the viscosity
Obviously some whatevers are thinner than other whatevers

btw, as much as I don't care for DI engines, ours doesn't burn any oil after 124K miles.

What?

 

[OilUzer]

Re: "combined with the thin as pixx 0W-whatever motor oil that is so thin ..."

0W-whatever is not necessarily "thin as pixx" if watever=40 (e.g. Castrol A3/B4 Euro 0W-40).

"Obviously some whatevers are thinner than other whatevers" example:
30 is thinner than 40.

As we all know (according to the internet ), cold start viscosity of any engine oil (xW) is much higher than it's viscosity under normal operating temperatures ...

sounded like anything "0W" was getting blamed for being too "thin" and I was having some fun with it.
only if op had said thin oil or xW-thin

Re: "GDI vehicles drink so much oil ..."
3 DI in our immediate family (we have one) that I have somewhat intimate knowledge of don't burn any oil. I still don't like them for other reasons granted they are all doing well and the owners are happy. One happy owner traded his at 60 or 70K miles but that doesn't count. We'll wait see if they make it to 300K miles and I may change my mind and will buy a license plate saying ILUVIVD

 

[kschachn]

Right I see. In other words, a reminder of what the winter rating means and does not mean.

 

[DZello]

“The main reason OEs are going with direct injection is because of what I would consider to be unrealistic MPG requirements by the government,”

He’s seriously blaming the government for GDI issues. These things can't be made up.

 

[circuitsmith]

Knowing how to mechanically build an engine does not automatically impart knowledge of the combustion process details in a modern GDI engine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

“The main reason OEs are going with direct injection is because of what I would consider to be unrealistic MPG requirements by the government,”

He’s seriously blaming the government for GDI issues. These things can't be made up.

What I don't understand is how can a DI gasoline engine get better fuel mileage when it runs so rich and makes the tail pipes covered in combustion soot? I'd think all the soot means it has to be running richer. My port fuel injected Coyote barely has any combustion soot on the inside of tail pipe, even after 5000 miles. It seems to burn much cleaner than any DI car I've ever seen.

 

[OilUzer]

I still remember many years ago my mom asked me to do something and I broke one of her fancy vase in the process.
I argued with her that had she not asked me to do the job, the vase would have been fine! Which is true.
She kept saying "You need to take responsibility for your actions! ..."
I thought she should have taken part of the blame (something > 0) but she was having none of that.
I think that was meant to be one of my first lessons re responsibility, etc. but I still have issues with absolute 0.

“The main reason OEs are going with direct injection is because of what I would consider to be unrealistic MPG requirements by the government,”

He’s seriously blaming the government for GDI issues. These things can't be made up.

 

[OilUzer]

What I don't understand is how can a DI gasoline engine get better fuel mileage when it runs so rich and makes the tail pipes covered in combustion soot? I'd think all the soot means it has to be running richer. My port fuel injected Coyote barely has any combustion soot on the inside of tail pipe, even after 5000 miles. It seems to burn much cleaner than any DI car I've ever seen.

I ain't no engine master but in a properly running DI engine, isn't most the soot generated when the engine is cold(er)? Cold cylinder walls, environment, etc. Maybe a little inefficient in that zone till things warm-up.

 

[Accent Abuser]

Re: Thin 0W-whatever

According to the internet, "whatever" is much thinner than 0 under normal operating temperatures ... so we shouldn't blame the 0 unless there is more to the story than the viscosity
Obviously some whatevers are thinner than other whatevers

btw, as much as I don't care for DI engines, ours doesn't burn any oil after 124K miles.

Mine doesn't either at almost 200k but I put super thick stuff in and dump it at 3k, I also regularly clean the intake valves.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Gasoline Direct Injection | Delphi Auto Parts

The OE parts, tools and know-how to service this fast-growing technology.

www.delphiautoparts.com

GDi: The future of the internal combustion engine | Delphi Auto Parts

In December 2018, the European Union agreed on new regulations to reduce CO2 emissions from cars by 2025 and 2030.

www.delphiautoparts.com

500+ Bar GDi System - BorgWarner

BorgWarner cuts particulate emissions, improves fuel economy with an industry-leading solution for 500+ bar gasoline direct injection systems.

www.borgwarner.com

Delphi develops 500+ bar GDi system which reduces particulates by up to 50%

In a paper presented at the 2019 Vienna Motor Symposium, Delphi Technologies has revealed a new 500+ bar GDi system that it claims can reduce particulate emissions by up to 50% compared to state-of-the-art 350 bar system without expensive engine design modifications.

www.just-auto.com

The quicker they move to 350 or 500+ bar GDI, and away from the common 200 bar GDI, the better. Still prefer dual/blended GDI/MPFI systems until they iron out all the known issues that they refuse to acknowledge. GDI....proof that the consumer did all the R&D for the automaker!

 

[Jetronic]

What I don't understand is how can a DI gasoline engine get better fuel mileage when it runs so rich and makes the tail pipes covered in combustion soot? I'd think all the soot means it has to be running richer. My port fuel injected Coyote barely has any combustion soot on the inside of tail pipe, even after 5000 miles. It seems to burn much cleaner than any DI car I've ever seen.

They can run rich around the sparkplug and lean everywhere else in the cylinder, whereas a PFI runs a homogenous mixture. The net result can be lean but with symptoms of running rich like sooty exhausts.

But the better fuel economy isn't just from running lean, as witnessed by the higher torque for the same displacement. Another benefit comes from the fuel evaporating inside the closed cylinder rather than in the ports, so temperatures drop and thermal efficiency goes up.

 

[circuitsmith]

I'd think all the soot means it has to be running richer.

Diesels always run lean and they make lots of soot.
The soot appears because there is not enough time for all the fuel droplets to fully vaporize.
A nanoscopic particle of fuel will burn down to a tiny cinder.

They can run rich around the sparkplug and lean everywhere else in the cylinder, whereas a PFI runs a homogenous mixture. The net result can be lean but with symptoms of running rich like sooty exhausts.

My 1975 Civic and 1981 Accord had CVCC engines that applied a rich mixture around the spark plug.
Neither made more soot than regular gas engines.

The quicker they move to 350 or 500+ bar GDI, and away from the common 200 bar GDI, the better.

The higher pressure fuel injectors spray smaller particles of liquid fuel, which vaporize more completely during their brief time in the combustion chamber.

But the better fuel economy isn't just from running lean, as witnessed by the higher torque for the same displacement. Another benefit comes from the fuel evaporating inside the closed cylinder rather than in the ports, so temperatures drop and thermal efficiency goes up.

This also allows a higher compression ratio while holding off spark knock.
My Tucson runs at 12.5:1 and is happy with 87 octane.
Back in the '60s a car with 12:1 compression you'd want to use American (Amoco) premium 100 octane.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Diesels always run lean and they make lots of soot.
The soot appears because there is not enough time for all the fuel droplets to fully vaporize.
A nanoscopic particle of fuel will burn down to a tiny cinder.

Diesel fuel is a very different composition from gasoline which results in more soot from diesel. You can't "roll coal" in a gasoline engine unless it's burning about a 5:1 or richer A/F mixture.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Unless you monitor knock sensor, fuel enrichment, timing retard.... you'll never know if your engine is happy with 87. Because of sensors and tuning, most will run on any octane. What is optimum depends on the engine and that is unknown to the majority. I know that my HyundaiKia's were not happy with 87 during the summer. Definitely needed mid or premium to get the response back from the go pedal. Beach or commute traffic, 90+F outside, couple extra passengers.... and go pedal is pathetic on regular.

200bar GDI soot is caused by the small fuel droplets that didn't vaporize. Stuff builds up everywhere. And pedal to the floor will create a soot cloud especially after wife drives for 3-4 months.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Unless you monitor knock sensor, fuel enrichment, timing retard.... you'll never know if your engine is happy with 87. Because of sensors and tuning, most will run on any octane. What is optimum depends on the engine and that is unknown to the majority. I know that my HyundaiKia's were not happy with 87 during the summer. Definitely needed mid or premium to get the response back from the go pedal. Beach or commute traffic, 90+F outside, couple extra passengers.... and go pedal is pathetic on regular.

200bar GDI soot is caused by the small fuel droplets that didn't vaporize. Stuff builds up everywhere. And pedal to the floor will create a soot cloud especially after wife drives for 3-4 months.

I find myself adding a couple gallons of e0 91 to the tank during this hot times here in my area. Micro dosing with the Redline Si-1, and doing quick GDi CRC cleaning every 10k. Just did a Wichita and back home to Admire KS today doing 79mph on probably 88+ octane and scored 37mpg on the turnpike. I can honestly say that I feel a better running car when I get the octane slightly higher than 87.