Valvetrain sludge: 2007 Toyota 4Runner
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Some engines just cannot tolerate anything longer than manufacturers OCI with the recommended conventional oil, and sometimes they can't even handle that. Example, I had a stuck compression ring on a 97 Camry 2.2 and PYB inadvertently unstuck it. Eliminated the obviously uneven compression when cranking.
OTOH I've had engines much more neglected than that that never skipped a beat. Just imagine that pad of sludge on the cam cap there covering every part of the head that didn't slide.
I'd hold off on the solvent chemicals if I were you, especially in light of the shredded chain guides. The T6 is a good start.
OTOH I've had engines much more neglected than that that never skipped a beat. Just imagine that pad of sludge on the cam cap there covering every part of the head that didn't slide.
I'd hold off on the solvent chemicals if I were you, especially in light of the shredded chain guides. The T6 is a good start.
Can of bg109 right before your next oil change. It should clean a lot of that varnish and some of the sludge
long as its running right you can nurse it back..I'm at 130k uses no oil or coolant 21-22 mpg. drive train is perfect all the fluids fresh, u-joints greased..you can really work with a 4th gen even if you get spendy a nice one never really goes out of style.
Terrific input, thanks folks. AAP has a sale on T6 0W-40 @ $19/gallon and the V6 seems to run well with it in this warm weather, I'll run a short OCI w/ it before the weather gets cold. Great advice on the fuel & cleaner, will do.
It's a nice vehicle to work on...plenty of room under the hood and most of the bolts are 10mm and 12mm. The original owner spent his oil change $ at the car wash, it's in great shape underneath.
It's a nice vehicle to work on...plenty of room under the hood and most of the bolts are 10mm and 12mm. The original owner spent his oil change $ at the car wash, it's in great shape underneath.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
don't discount TCW-3 in the fuel, here's my Honda 500 piston/cylinder after being on it 10 yrs. straight.
Nice!
don't discount TCW-3 in the fuel, here's my Honda 500 piston/cylinder after being on it 10 yrs. straight.
Nice!
Originally Posted By: dblshock
don't discount TCW-3 in the fuel, here's my Honda 500 piston/cylinder after being on it 10 yrs. straight.
Results speak for themselves here. I am thinking of trying TCW-3 myself. But it still cracks me up sometimes how some people go against these obviously good results and preach that 4-cycle engines do not need TCW-3 and that it does absolutely nothing in a 4-cycle engine. Hah
don't discount TCW-3 in the fuel, here's my Honda 500 piston/cylinder after being on it 10 yrs. straight.
Results speak for themselves here. I am thinking of trying TCW-3 myself. But it still cracks me up sometimes how some people go against these obviously good results and preach that 4-cycle engines do not need TCW-3 and that it does absolutely nothing in a 4-cycle engine. Hah
Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian
Originally Posted By: dblshock
don't discount TCW-3 in the fuel, here's my Honda 500 piston/cylinder after being on it 10 yrs. straight.
Results speak for themselves here. I am thinking of trying TCW-3 myself. But it still cracks me up sometimes how some people go against these obviously good results and preach that 4-cycle engines do not need TCW-3 and that it does absolutely nothing in a 4-cycle engine. Hah
The proof appears to be in the picture.
Originally Posted By: dblshock
don't discount TCW-3 in the fuel, here's my Honda 500 piston/cylinder after being on it 10 yrs. straight.
Results speak for themselves here. I am thinking of trying TCW-3 myself. But it still cracks me up sometimes how some people go against these obviously good results and preach that 4-cycle engines do not need TCW-3 and that it does absolutely nothing in a 4-cycle engine. Hah
The proof appears to be in the picture.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I had the same truck and V6 in a 2006 that I put 200,000 trouble free miles on it was solid when I sold it. I replaced a valve cover gasket at 150/160k (did both) and my motor was spotless with 5,000 mile OCI running either Formula Shell synthetic or Wall Mart ST in either 5 or 10w30 never had to add a drop of oil between changes. I tried running Shell RTS 5w40 once and it made the truck run slow like it was driving threw "taffy" so I stuck with the 30 weights.
How is the frame rust? Mine was starting to get bad but that is typical for Western Massachusetts with the brine mixture they use on the roads here it is 12 times more corrosive then rock salt! ... Really [censored] me off!
I had a 1990 Ford Tempo and used M1 5-30. I tried one change to M1 15-50 and the engine felt noticeably sluggish. Changed back to 5-30 and all was well.
I believe it. [rant]however I said the same thing about 2 years ago and had at least 8 people tell me that my "butt dyno" could not possibly notice a difference![/rant]
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
I had the same truck and V6 in a 2006 that I put 200,000 trouble free miles on it was solid when I sold it. I replaced a valve cover gasket at 150/160k (did both) and my motor was spotless with 5,000 mile OCI running either Formula Shell synthetic or Wall Mart ST in either 5 or 10w30 never had to add a drop of oil between changes. I tried running Shell RTS 5w40 once and it made the truck run slow like it was driving threw "taffy" so I stuck with the 30 weights.
How is the frame rust? Mine was starting to get bad but that is typical for Western Massachusetts with the brine mixture they use on the roads here it is 12 times more corrosive then rock salt! ... Really [censored] me off!
I had a 1990 Ford Tempo and used M1 5-30. I tried one change to M1 15-50 and the engine felt noticeably sluggish. Changed back to 5-30 and all was well.
I believe it. [rant]however I said the same thing about 2 years ago and had at least 8 people tell me that my "butt dyno" could not possibly notice a difference![/rant]
You can tell. My Jeep hates 40's. Butt dyno and fuel economy hand calculations confirm.
Where my Jeep doesn't like going from a 30 to a 40, my Navi could care less about going from a 20 to a 40. But my Navi has an unintentional extra bypass in its oil pump, so that might be a factor too.
Where my Jeep doesn't like going from a 30 to a 40, my Navi could care less about going from a 20 to a 40. But my Navi has an unintentional extra bypass in its oil pump, so that might be a factor too.
Update: I replaced the aftermarket #2 timing chain tensioner w/ a new Toyota piece, the clicking noise at idle is gone. PIcs below show the shiny aftermarket tensioner next to the factory piece, with the lower nylon pad clearly protruding forward about 1mm and impact marks from the #1 timing chain link pins. It's going back to RockAuto.
And here are pics of the #1 timing chain tensioner, showing the sludge accumulating in rings associated with each tensioner piston ratchet tooth. As the chain pins wore while the original owner didn't change the oil, the chain elongated and the tensioner piston extended another ratchet step. It's a crying shame. After a few short OCIs with Rotella T6 0W-40, I've switched to QSUD 5W-30 and a half-can of Lubro-Moly to further boost the moly content...may not be necessary given QSUD's dosage, the goal is to protect the chain pins while QSUD's calcium breaks up the sludge for the upcoming timing chain replacement project.
Pretty safe to say that engine didn’t see oil changes too often.
Update: 5th oil fill was Amsoil Signature Series 0W-30 with 15oz of Lubeguard moly additive. To make an informed decision on whether to replace the timing chains & guides or get a lower-mileage salvage yard engine, I drew a sample at 3700 miles and sent to Blackstone. Report is below, engine appears fine unless you folks see something I'm missing. 
I changed the filter, did a cut and here's what the canister housing looked like after draining...bear in mind this filter mounts upside down, on top of the engine:
SSO has a hefty dose of calcium detergent, and it appears to be working. The Toyota filter seems to be doing a surprisingly good job of catching sludge particles as shown in the Blackstone report insolubles data point. I'll run it up to ~6K miles and do one more oil change before I open up the engine this Summer to replace the timing chain set. Definitely removing the oil pan sump to get it and the pickup screen clean, I imagine it's a mess in there.
I changed the filter, did a cut and here's what the canister housing looked like after draining...bear in mind this filter mounts upside down, on top of the engine:
SSO has a hefty dose of calcium detergent, and it appears to be working. The Toyota filter seems to be doing a surprisingly good job of catching sludge particles as shown in the Blackstone report insolubles data point. I'll run it up to ~6K miles and do one more oil change before I open up the engine this Summer to replace the timing chain set. Definitely removing the oil pan sump to get it and the pickup screen clean, I imagine it's a mess in there.
Does not look that bad. I do have a question . Will good engine oil clean varnish over time ???.
Any thoughts on the Rotella T6 you used initially? I see you went away from it later on. Thank you.
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Any thoughts on the Rotella T6 you used initially? I see you went away from it later on. Thank you.
The engine did not like T6 0W-40 as the overnight temperatures dropped into the 30-40F range. I was getting P0016 every morning, even warming the engine up for a few minutes. And throttle response was noticeably sluggish, like driving uphill, until the engine was fully up to operating temp for quite a few miles and the oil was warmed up. My theory on the P0016 frequency increase was that the thicker cold viscosity was delaying pressurization of the #2 chain tensioners, which aren't a ratchet design like the #1 tensioner. All three chains in this engine are elongated from prior oil change neglect.
Changing to Amsoil 0W-30 brought P0016 back under control, and throttle response was much improved at cold temps.
Any thoughts on the Rotella T6 you used initially? I see you went away from it later on. Thank you.
The engine did not like T6 0W-40 as the overnight temperatures dropped into the 30-40F range. I was getting P0016 every morning, even warming the engine up for a few minutes. And throttle response was noticeably sluggish, like driving uphill, until the engine was fully up to operating temp for quite a few miles and the oil was warmed up. My theory on the P0016 frequency increase was that the thicker cold viscosity was delaying pressurization of the #2 chain tensioners, which aren't a ratchet design like the #1 tensioner. All three chains in this engine are elongated from prior oil change neglect.
Changing to Amsoil 0W-30 brought P0016 back under control, and throttle response was much improved at cold temps.
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Originally Posted By: littleant
Does not look that bad. I do have a question . Will good engine oil clean varnish over time ???.
Varnish: not in my experience. This usually requires a solvent, not detergents found in motor oil.
Sludge: reasonably well in areas that are splashed and washed with hot oil flow, but not in pooled areas with no drainage.
Does not look that bad. I do have a question . Will good engine oil clean varnish over time ???.
Varnish: not in my experience. This usually requires a solvent, not detergents found in motor oil.
Sludge: reasonably well in areas that are splashed and washed with hot oil flow, but not in pooled areas with no drainage.
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