USB Chargers ?

Of the several micro Usb and Usb C charged flashlights i own,
using my best 15 watt usb source, with short ( 1' or less) quality cables, and clean connectors, into a well depleted healhy battery,
The highest charge rate is 1.81 amps, the lowest is 0.61 amps.

Will your HF light be able to draw more than 10 watts from your motorola USB source can supply?

You'd have to get a Usb meter, try a 10+ watt usb supply, and tell me.

I would guess no,
but could easily be wrong.

The only potential benefit woukd be if minimum recharge times were required, or the motorola got stinky plastic hot, when being maxed out for 3 hours.
I'm going to buy these, and see what damage I can cause. If nothing else it will be fun to play around with, and see what's going on. Besides, as I accumulate more and more of this USB rechargeable stuff, it's not going to hurt to have a couple of extra chargers laying around.


 
This light is probably using a battery with a built-in USB port, and charging circuit. It will correctly charge the battery. For LiIon cells, we typically charge at 1/2C, which takes around two hours - regardless of cell size. 'C' is the capacity of the cell. Very small cells, such as 10180 and 10440 are typically charged at a lower rate, like 1/3C.

Your *charger* does not determine how much voltage is applied to the cell, the built-in charger does that. It will also limit amperage, although a charger that can deliver less than the built-in will allow obviously then limits max charge rate.

I vaguely remember a battery analysis web page that used 1/10C and higher, to test lifespans of batteries. IIRC, lower amperage resulted in longer lifetimes.
 
That looks like a nice USB C, USB A and micro USB Meter.

I just got a USB C only, TC66c, which has some abilities, and features , like Bluetooth, that I am unlikely to employ anytime soon.

When there is plenty of time to recharge my phone, I will employ older 5 watt usb wall warts, with longer cables, and it maxes out at about 0.78 amps, but when i need faster recharges short quality cables close to 15 watt supply, the phone maxes out at around 1.65ish amps, as long as it is under 80f.


My phone, when hot, will limit amperage to no more than 1.4, but I've seen it refuse to go higher than 0.56a when its 100f+.

It's great to see how much power the phone is pulling, and when, and which cables and USB supplies behave the way I have learned to expect.

The meters can exert a lot of force on usb C ports with all the leverage. I use extra care with the meter if plugged directly into phone. Usually i have a 16" extension between meter and phone, to reduce this potential leverage.
 
OK - where to start?

First of all - it's not accurate to call these devices "chargers". They don't really control the current going to the device. They're current limited voltage supplies, although there can be vastly different quality and the quality of regulation. The vast majority of devices don't really care about how much current the power source can supply. It will take as much as it wants up to the current limit of the supply. You could have a supply that could theoretically produce 100A, but a device that will only accept 2.1A is only going to take that much. It's just Ohm's Law - V=IxR. The device controls the effective resistance and thus the maximum current.

USB is not just 5V. Even some non-standard USB-A power adapters can optionally put out higher voltages for specific devices. And USB-C is even more complicated, where there can be a "negotiated" voltage of 9/12/15/20V. However, if the device can't negotiate, it defaults to 5V.

What I use includes various stuff I got over the years, including Apple, Anker, Belkin, and others. The others include one I got at a store called Miniso, but is labelled as made by Rewoda. I would have no qualms using anything that was packaged with an Amazon device and use some of them even though the devices are long gone. Or the USB-C power adapters that came with my computers, which come from better companies like Lite-On or lesser known companies like AcBel (from a Lenovo).

The one caveat would be completely oddball device like some vaping devices. I've heard of way too many fires started because they used a non-standard "charger" unit where the vaping device and the included charger formed a complete circuit. They weren't designed around using standard power adapters and would often overheat when someone substituted a regular USB power adapter and cable. They often were built around the USB micro-B port and connector even though they weren't normal USB devices with a carefully designed charging circuit inside the device.

I've got an old bike light that has a USB micro-B port to charge. It came with a USB-A to USB micro-B cable for charging, but not a power adapter. I can pretty much use any USB power adapter with a compatible cable and/or set of adapters/hubs to charge it.
 
I've repurposed older USB A power supply/ wall warts, to power 12vDC RED LEDs, to use as night lights in hallway, and bathroom, and kitchen.

Any bright light at night, and light color other than red, makes falling back asleep at night difficult for me, so just enough red light to move safely is my desire.

These red leds need about 6vDC to turn on, so I use a Xl6009 voltage booster modded with a different value fingertwist potentiometer to prevent 14+v from melting the LEDs, as it can boost to over 30vDC out of the box.

At max brightness, the brightest nightlight ive made so far draws 0.36amps according to my USB meter.
The tiny cube 1 amp 'nook' wall wart, barely gets warm powering it.

Dimmed to late night levels, and its draw is somewhere below the 0.02amp resolution of my USB meters.

The few 12vDC wall warts I have are much larger and clunkier, and have been employed elsewhere, and I use a 5 amp rated voltage bucker for dimming 12vdc leds or slowing 12vdc fans.

Im eyeballing a 19.5vdc 120 watt laptop power supply for all sorts of nerdy multivoltage precision mischief.
 
The few 12vDC wall warts I have are much larger and clunkier, and have been employed elsewhere, and I use a 5 amp rated voltage bucker for dimming 12vdc leds or slowing 12vdc fans.

I've got a bunch of 12V power supplies, but only a few are wall warts. Some have an AC cable connected to a box and are rated for up to 4A output. Most of them came with external hard drives.

However, I don't use those much, but repurposed the power adapters. They came with a fairly wide coax connector, and I found a seller on eBay years ago selling an adapter for a really narrow coax tip, and I can use that with my Maha AA/AAA battery chargers which has that narrow coax port.

I do have a power supply with tons of different tips and adjustable voltage. It's hiding in a drawer somewhere.
 
Nice.
Ive been experimenting with a 3s 18650 holder as a pocket sized 12.6v battery. I can charge each cell individually, and sometimes do, but I wanted to charge all three, at 12.599v.

I have a hundred amp adjustable voltage power supply, but couldnt just set it at 12.59v and hook upthe depleted 3s pack as it would charge at well over 10 amps.

Id have to lower voltage to about 0.3v over the pack's voltage, to keep it around a 2 amp charge rate, and bump voltage up to 12.59 in a few stages.

I now have a little Xl4015 based bucker with current control. I feed the bucker with my Ridgid 18v 60 watt (actual 21.45v, and 2 amp max) wall wart. The bucker is set to 12.55v, and as i had at least 7 hours to recharge today, I lowered the amperage potentiometer to 0.15 amps and walked away.

I aim to replace the 43 watt Ridgid power supply with an older higher wattage inline power brick from a laptop, house a 10 amp buck/boost module, with 60mm fan inside a vented repurposed enclosure, with built in shunted meter and 2 10 turn potentiometers, one for voltage, one for amperage, and have a 10 amp 'universal' manual precision charger/power supply with current control.

I have several inline powermeters with 8awg cables and 45 amp anderson powerpole connectors on almost everything DC, and can and do measure charging or discharging currents on just about everything DC, so these USB meters get me a little excited, and its rare that I use a usb cable without a meter inline, so have tons of experience watching current flow from powersupply to battery within usb charged device, or from a heftier adjustable voltage powersupply into lead acid deep cycle batteries.

The 18650 cells in my 3s pack are 1500mah pulls from a failed ryobi 18v battery pack, one cell was 2.06v, the other 4 were 3.63v on disassembly.
The 3 in my 3s pack were the closest 3 in performance, and seem to be down to about 1150mah each.

My other 18650s are far too mismatched to use in series, and still too good to replace.

I have a nice 21700 3 bay holder, but only one 21700 cell at the moment.

More projects than round tuits though.
 
Thanks for all that. OK, so.... Correct me if I'm wrong. These chargers don't "push" current, like a standard lead acid battery charger does. Instead the device plugged into it only allows enough current that it knows it can accept?

So if I do use a higher output charger, that can produce more amperage than the device plugged into it can take, the device will sense this and limit it's input to only what that particular device can accept without overcharging, or overheating it?
On the last paragraph, I say yes.

Some more thoughts that support the theory mentioned.

Today, 65W+ USB-C chargers are sold left and right, as are USB-C to USB-C cables for such. These eliminate the need to carry a brick in one’s bag, for laptops.

I have a few, all different brands. 2 are even GaN.

Mulitiple laptops say the charger connected are under powered, when one of the 65w chargers are connected.

We use an industrial tablet at work, it has a large battery that comprises the back of the device. When I looked up the factory charger, it’s only 12W. No matter what USB-C charger I connect, it goes into fast charging mode. So I believe that the device controls the charging, not the other way around.

Me, I’ve found Anker seems to make good chargers and cables. They do have terrible customer service but it doesn’t seem said customer service is needed, since the products are constructed well.

Interesting today, most laptops have multiple usb-c ports. Both will have lightning bolts. One will have a power supply cord icon, in addition. My laptop, vs. most coworkers (different Dell model), has the power closer to me. The others have the power closer to the back. No idea why Dell flip-flopped them, and everything works either way (at home I use the factory power supply and my own usb-c hub—at work I have the factory Dell “dock” thst handles power and everything else with one connection).
 
On the last paragraph, I say yes.

Some more thoughts that support the theory mentioned.

Today, 65W+ USB-C chargers are sold left and right, as are USB-C to USB-C cables for such. These eliminate the need to carry a brick in one’s bag, for laptops.

I have a few, all different brands. 2 are even GaN.

Mulitiple laptops say the charger connected are under powered, when one of the 65w chargers are connected.

We use an industrial tablet at work, it has a large battery that comprises the back of the device. When I looked up the factory charger, it’s only 12W. No matter what USB-C charger I connect, it goes into fast charging mode. So I believe that the device controls the charging, not the other way around.

Me, I’ve found Anker seems to make good chargers and cables. They do have terrible customer service but it doesn’t seem said customer service is needed, since the products are constructed well.

Interesting today, most laptops have multiple usb-c ports. Both will have lightning bolts. One will have a power supply cord icon, in addition. My laptop, vs. most coworkers (different Dell model), has the power closer to me. The others have the power closer to the back. No idea why Dell flip-flopped them, and everything works either way (at home I use the factory power supply and my own usb-c hub—at work I have the factory Dell “dock” thst handles power and everything else with one connection).

USB-C is still a big mess - probably because it tries to be so many things at once.

I've tried some weird things, including using a 5W Apple "cube" power adapter and a USB-A to USB-C cable to power a Mac. And it was recognized as such but obviously it was just barely enough to slow down the discharge of the battery.

I have no problem with Anker, although I'm thinking some might since it's a Chinese company. Not just Chinese contract manufacturing, but where the designs come from China.

I've tried some really weird stuff, including powering a Mac off of itself with the USB-C to MagSafe 3 cable. It said it would complete charging within a few hours, even though the state of charge was steadily dropping. Haven't tried it with a PC.
 
7000 lumen claim aside, can you access the battery compartment to see what's there? Owner manual says 7.4V 5000mAh. If i had to guess, it's two 26650 or 21700 cells connected in series, and it uses USB C port, which in theory is capable of higher voltage and current.

Appear to be two low-capacity 26650 cells in series. Given that, I doubt there is any sort of BMS to balance the cells during recharging.

The light does have a power bank feature, so there is some intelligence in the charger circuit, but without testing, it's hard to say whether it's employing PD, or its other characteristics.

USB has become a much more complex beast, and measuring tools (meters and loads) have become even more essential; without those tools, it's only guesswork.

Fundamentally speaking, electricity is pulled, not pushed, so it's up to the device (sink) to determine how fast, and how much it can handle, and takes from the power adapter (source).

It's ironic how USB, which was originally envisioned primarily as a data connection to replace the old series and parallel ports, has seen power delivery become its primary function, in practical usage.

It was only designed to supply low levels of power (fixed 5V, 1.5A), which lead to the slew of proprietary protocols (Apple 2.4, Samsung FC, QuickCharge [with variable, higher levels of voltage and current], and so on) piggybacked onto it to satisfy the need for higher power delivery rates, once device manufacturers made it in a de facto charging method.

It's doubly ironic how the USB IF developed the Power Delivery standard (at current spec, up to 48V at 5A) to be an open, non-proprietary, and the sole sanctioned power delivery protocol over Type-C, and yet there are still the same attempts as a wild west of proprietary charging standards has still occurred to an extent, albeit lesser.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any flashlight that actually employs PD; it requires some intelligence (cost) built into the driver, and the headroom it provides isn't necessary. And that's without considering how many light manufacturers are too cheap or lazy to ensure the pulldown resistors are present in their lights' Type-C connectors, forcing the use of A2C cables, and making their ports half-functional, despite the hype in the marketing copy…

…which also fails to dispel the myth that Type-C and PD are absolutely mutually inclusive, at least in the public mindshare, when they are distinct specs, and as with the data protocols, can vary in type or simple presence, despite the common connector they share. A Type-C charging port does not necessarily need, or have to employ PD. "Dumb," or cheap devices with modest power needs do not require the high power capacity, nor are they likely to support the active intellignece required by the PD protocol. They rely on the passive coding (provided by the resistors in the device's port) to signal the source that something is connected, in lieu of the active negotiation that occurs with actual PD devices. Unlike the constant 5V supplied by the old Type-A connections, Type-C does not supply power unless signaled to, and only at levels the sink calls for.
 
Appear to be two low-capacity 26650 cells in series. Given that, I doubt there is any sort of BMS to balance the cells during recharging.

The light does have a power bank feature, so there is some intelligence in the charger circuit, but without testing, it's hard to say whether it's employing PD, or its other characteristics.

USB has become a much more complex beast, and measuring tools (meters and loads) have become even more essential; without those tools, it's only guesswork.

Fundamentally speaking, electricity is pulled, not pushed, so it's up to the device (sink) to determine how fast, and how much it can handle, and takes from the power adapter (source).

It's ironic how USB, which was originally envisioned primarily as a data connection to replace the old series and parallel ports, has seen power delivery become its primary function, in practical usage.

It was only designed to supply low levels of power (fixed 5V, 1.5A), which lead to the slew of proprietary protocols (Apple 2.4, Samsung FC, QuickCharge [with variable, higher levels of voltage and current], and so on) piggybacked onto it to satisfy the need for higher power delivery rates, once device manufacturers made it in a de facto charging method.

It's doubly ironic how the USB IF developed the Power Delivery standard (at current spec, up to 48V at 5A) to be an open, non-proprietary, and the sole sanctioned power delivery protocol over Type-C, and yet there are still the same attempts as a wild west of proprietary charging standards has still occurred to an extent, albeit lesser.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any flashlight that actually employs PD; it requires some intelligence (cost) built into the driver, and the headroom it provides isn't necessary. And that's without considering how many light manufacturers are too cheap or lazy to ensure the pulldown resistors are present in their lights' Type-C connectors, forcing the use of A2C cables, and making their ports half-functional, despite the hype in the marketing copy…

…which also fails to dispel the myth that Type-C and PD are absolutely mutually inclusive, at least in the public mindshare, when they are distinct specs, and as with the data protocols, can vary in type or simple presence, despite the common connector they share. A Type-C charging port does not necessarily need, or have to employ PD. "Dumb," or cheap devices with modest power needs do not require the high power capacity, nor are they likely to support the active intellignece required by the PD protocol. They rely on the passive coding (provided by the resistors in the device's port) to signal the source that something is connected, in lieu of the active negotiation that occurs with actual PD devices. Unlike the constant 5V supplied by the old Type-A connections, Type-C does not supply power unless signaled to, and only at levels the sink calls for.

I seem to recall that the original requirement for USB-A ports was 5V/0.5A. And there were things like early bus powered USB hard drives that came with dual port cables to extract more power with mini-B for the drive port.

s-l1600.jpg


And mini-B was pretty odd too. I got a Motorola RAZR V3 and it had a mini-B port for charging, but I couldn't seem to charge it with a USB-A to mini-B cable, which might have been useful for data transfer although I never tried. But I would always use the included power adapter with a captive mini-B cable.

USB micro-B has been kind of weird over the years. I've seen some pretty oddball stuff over the years. I bought my kid these shoes that had lights in them where they could change lights on the side, but they had to be charged. It came with a dual micro-B cable that charged from a single USB-A plug. I tried using that for other things and I'm not sure exactly how it distributed available power.

I've also gotten some weird triple cables with Lightning/micro-B/USB-C and they seemingly work to provide power to all three simultaneously, but again the power distribution is unpredictable.

I think some devices are going with USB-C and a basic 5V system because the port is mechanically more reliable than micro-B, which I've seen fail. My wife had to prop up her phone in certain ways to get it to charge such that it had good contact with the micro-B pins. I have a USB power bank that only charges via USB-C but has two USB-A outputs and uses the USB-C port for 5V output. I've got a pair of Bluetooth headphones that has a USB-C charge port.
 
Thanks for all that. OK, so.... Correct me if I'm wrong. These chargers don't "push" current, like a standard lead acid battery charger does. Instead the device plugged into it only allows enough current that it knows it can accept?

Sorry to sidetrack, but lead acid charging is something I've been dealing a lot with lately, albeit in small applications.

There are actually two "methods" to charging lead acid, and ideally you use both of them. When I charge free-standing batteries I use a bench power supply that can function either in constant current or constant voltage mode.

Lead acid loves being charged "low and slow" as the saying goes, and either constant voltage or constant current can work but which one is "ideal" depends on the current state of charge of the battery.

For small sealed batteries, generally the desired constant voltage charging point is 2.4V/cell(I ALWAYS go by the manufacturer's spec sheet when I have it), while flooded batteries often are best at more like 2.3V/cell. Of course a "12V" automotive battery is 6 cells, so when I give these voltages multiply them by the number of cells. I deal with single cell, 3 cell, and 4 cell batteries quite often.

BTW, the ideal voltage is a balancing act and is also temperature dependent. Charging at too low of a voltage can lead to sulfation, while too high causes "gassing"(electrolysis of the electrolyte). Sealed cells typically have some ability to contain pressure although of course also have safety valves to "pop." When I'm trying to ressurect one from the dead(and I can sometimes do it...) I may need to use stupid voltages to get it there and will "unseal" a sealed battery where I can to better handle this.

When I set up a bench charger, before connecting, I will set the voltage to 2.4V/cell, and then connect a resistor across it(since the one I have won't let you see the current set point unless it's under load) to set the current to .1C, or 1/10 the Ah rating.

When one is low, it will charge at the set current. The power supply will only put out the voltage needed to maintain that current, and that is dictated by the internal resistance of the cell. For a really flat/dead battery that might start out at say 1.8V/cell. As the state of charge increases, the battery resistance increases so the voltage rises. Eventually the voltage will reach your desired set point, at which point current will decrease as charge state and resistance continues to rise. On a really good, fresh single cell of relatively low capacity I might see current drop to zero, although the rule of thumb I use for full charge is .01C or less. Many will also tell you not to stay at 2.4V/cell(or whatever) for more than a certain amount of time(say 12 hours) although that's not a hard and fast rule as long as long as you're not beating the battery up too badly or gassing too much.

Of course once you reach full charge(again using .01C as my rule of thumb) it's a good idea to "float" for 12-24 hours, which will be in the range of 2.2-2.3V/cell. Current draw should be low-if it's even .01C I'd be suspicious of the battery condition-but in theory a lead acid cell can sit at float voltage indefinitely. I've seen including a float as part of your charge regimen called a "rest period" after the full charge, though, and many references I've read recommend floating for some period of time after any charge.

Nickel battery chemistry(NiCd and NiMH) are a different beast, as are lithium chemistries, but with charging the same rules still apply, namely that at a given charge voltage the battery will draw no more current than the internal resistance will allow. I'll also mention too that I've recharged nickel based batteries from a bench PSU(it can be touchy, especially with NiMH, and the signs of full charge can be subtle), but lithium scares me :) .

Sorry for the diversion, but I thought it might be interesting to show the charging set-up I use for small lead acid batteries. This is a Cyclon cell, which is a small, self contained single AGM-type battery. This particular one is a D sized cell, so physically the same size as an alkaline D cell you can find anywhere. This is the smallest they make-there's also an E size cell, DT(same diameter is this, roughly twice the height), an X sized cell, and maybe a few others. These Cyclon cells are nifty little units that let you easily build portable lead acid packs of any size/shape/configuration you need. The D sized is rated at 2.5Ah, hence my setting it to 250mA. Note that this has just started charging, so the voltage is well below 2.4V.

IMG_0202.jpeg
 
You can use any charger without concern. I use a 30W Mac book air usb-c charger for nearly anything from flashlights to other cheap electronics. I have a short USB-c to USB-a dongle for the old stuff.
 
You can use any charger without concern. I use a 30W Mac book air usb-c charger for nearly anything from flashlights to other cheap electronics. I have a short USB-c to USB-a dongle for the old stuff.

There's still issues with the quality of power supplies. In the past I took chances on cheap ones and when they got extremely hot I figured it was a bad idea to continue using them. The user still needs to discern between what's good and what's junk. Especially with USB-C where there's the potential for the negotiation to go wrong and it provides the incorrect voltage.

I wouldn't worry about using any USB-C power adapter sold by Apple, but there's the issue with counterfeits. And the occasional recall. Apple doesn't actually design them, but has vendors make them to their specifications.
 
Anker and Apple sell decent USB-c power supplies for cheap money.

Apple tends to be expensive if you're buying them separately. The 20W USB-C adapter is $19, which is pretty expensive. I won't argue with Anker. I recently got a two pack of their 20W USB-C power adapters for $15. I especially like that since they have folding blades.


The 30W one is $39. I have one from a now dead MacBook Air (long story) but I think there are better bargains out there if one is buying a separate adapter.
 
Apple tends to be expensive if you're buying them separately. The 20W USB-C adapter is $19, which is pretty expensive. I won't argue with Anker. I recently got a two pack of their 20W USB-C power adapters for $15. I especially like that since they have folding blades.


The 30W one is $39. I have one from a now dead MacBook Air (long story) but I think there are better bargains out there if one is buying a separate adapter.
$19 expensive ????? They last at least a few years unlike even Anker .
 
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