The opioid epidemic - hoppers/thieves

[PandaBear]

not sure if this was posted, but here is Portugal's answer: https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

The reality is that, as has been mentioned, you can certainly "solve" the problem. Execute people who sell drugs, and lock up drug users in prison for 20 years. You won't have much of a drug problem... I don't think the average North American really wants to go down the road of China, though (nor am I recommending it, just to be clear).

The one thing I will say is that "the war on drugs" is over--and drugs won.. We have to look at alternatives. The desire to seek intoxication is as old as mankind, and it's not going anywhere.

I thought that Ontario had been cutting back funding on the safe injection site programs since 2019? Is that actually the case, and could that be a contributing factor?

There are some social economical problems that can be solved by dictators. The reality is, giving people choices between Singapore or Compton Los Angeles, I think most middle class people in the world would choose Singapore. It doesn't have to be China (modern day China also has a huge drug addiction problem and I think it is a "don't ask don't tell" policy between some organized crime, military, local officials, and central officials to keep things under control on a larger scale. Singapore on the other hand, means business on most of their policies, for good reasons.

 

[Jack Watts]

There are some social economical problems that can be solved by dictators. The reality is, giving people choices between Singapore or Compton Los Angeles, I think most middle class people in the world would choose Singapore. It doesn't have to be China (modern day China also has a huge drug addiction problem and I think it is a "don't ask don't tell" policy between some organized crime, military, local officials, and central officials to keep things under control on a larger scale. Singapore on the other hand, means business on most of their policies, for good reasons.

I don't think most would consider Singapore to be a dictatorship though?

As far as China, I obviously only see what's in the surface in the big cities--and it's a really big country! But I haven't seen much drug use. Alcohol abuse, otoh, is rampant--and up until 2 or 3 years ago, drunken driving was a way of life.

 

[PandaBear]

I don't think most would consider Singapore to be a dictatorship though?

As far as China, I obviously only see what's in the surface in the big cities--and it's a really big country! But I haven't seen much drug use. Alcohol abuse, otoh, is rampant--and up until 2 or 3 years ago, drunken driving was a way of life.

No chewing gum allowed because people spit them on the sidewalk.
Every neighborhood of middle class government sponsored housing has ethnic quota, so every neighborhood has the same ethnic distribution.
Cars are taxed into retirement at 10 year
The same political party rules everything
If you talk trash about the government they sort of find ways to get you in jail using other mean (i.e. promoting hate).

Very efficient, very safe, very capitalist, but not much freedom and their democracy is meh.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Opioid crisis has hit my area **hard**. This is an entirely different city than it was 5 - 8 years ago. Here is a recently-published video of a local EMS tech, from his perspective:

 

[ctechbob]

However - There's been a lot of talk lately, especially in big cities, about social workers doing much of the social interaction that police currently do, under certain circumstances. I definitely don't think social workers need to go out on 911 calls, but I'd support some funding being given to programs, similar to the work/rehabilitation camps you've proposed, and paying social workers to go out into the homeless community to actively offer people the option to give up the homeless street addict lifestyle and the chance to work their way to becoming a self-supporting, taxpaying member of society.

I'm not going to say 'the majority of' but of all the LEO's I interact with, myself included, think that social programs for things like that should be better funded. One of the things I actually agree with out of the 'Defund the Police' movement. I've probably got between 20-30 people in my jail (out of ~250) that should not be here and should be in some form of mental or severe substance abuse program, but they don't exist or are already overfull, so I get to deal with them. It takes up the majority of my time and causes me the most problems. I would love for those that need that kind of help to be able to get it and not be in jail.

Now, sending a social worker out to a suicidal call without law enforcement, that's a good way to get social workers killed, but I certainly think there's a place for one on scene after it is secured to handle the mental/substance side of the call.

 

[billt460]

The further governments move away from law enforcement in favor of more progressive "approaches", the worse this is going to get. Today the cop is the perp, and the criminal is the victim.

 

[cjcride]

It’s a very unfortunate situation, once they are hooked on ____ drug..... it’s almost impossible to get off and be clean.

and if a government provides that substance for no cost. Ending the addiction would be even tougher to do.

 

[wpod]

There is lots of difference from the guy that smokes some pot as compared to some one that has fried their brain to be nothing more than a zombie and a burden on society. I consider Alcohol to be the same. Some people enjoy an adult beverage and some let alcohol destroy their lives. I have had friend destroy their lives with drugs and Alcohol destroy their lives. It was sadly their choice and we are expected to pay for it dearly.

 

[zeky]

People used to come to towns/cities to make money, and now they come to take money. In the West the new crops of junkies dropping in to take also seem to enjoy lighting things on fire. Remember to change those batteries in smoke detectors every year.

 

[PandaBear]

There is lots of difference from the guy that smokes some pot as compared to some one that has fried their brain to be nothing more than a zombie and a burden on society. I consider Alcohol to be the same. Some people enjoy an adult beverage and some let alcohol destroy their lives. I have had friend destroy their lives with drugs and Alcohol destroy their lives. It was sadly their choice and we are expected to pay for it dearly.

Alcohol addiction was NOT as big of a problem in many Asian nations despite having way lower of a drinking age (i.e. 16, but to be honest nobody care and nobody card them at all). They are taxed heavily for non cooking alcohol (the ones that do not have salt added), and beer there had a lower alcohol contents.

I don't know what is the reason. In the US teens think drinking is cool and it is a cool thing to rebel parenting by drinking beer, smoking, vaping, etc. The same for smoking in Asia but alcohol is just another drink you drink at the dining table. You enjoy it with food and you use hard liquor to toast but not to show off your manhood like it is in the US.

I am not sure if it is because of the prohibition in the US, or if it is the age 21 limit, or just pop culture. We finally got cigarette off the cool list of things to do and replace it with vaping, and make it now a boomer or low income trash people thing instead of a young and hip thing it used to be. What can we do to make alcohol and getting high uncool? Maybe limit them in pop culture? Maybe replacing them with something less harmful and then gradually remove them too? I don't know.

 

[ripcord]

As much as it seems like people in the United States drink a lot, per capita alcohol consumption is a lot less than it was before Prohibition. The federal government has taxed it since the beginning of the country so we have very good records on production... Let's just say there was a reason that a majority of people and states thought Prohibition was a good idea at the time the amendment was passed.

 

[Ws6]

*ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICAL COMMENTS PLEASE*
Politics, sadly, is a part of life. I find it odd that CIVIL political commentary is "bad".
I do not want this thread locked.

Locally, over the past several years, there has been a massive insurgence of homeless as well as a huge spike in the number of addicts/addicted who roam the streets. These groups may have some members in common, but I believe many of the latter crash at trap houses and the like. Yes, likely. Many resources available to them.
I've had 9 bicycles stolen, which has been frustrating, but every time, my kids have forgotten to lock the bikes up. Until last night.
In Texas, we solved that problem with a shotgun or rifle and a light. Always PID your target! If you don't live in Texas, likely just suck it up and replace them, noone cares.
Things got weird a little while ago where a guy was up on my deck, had gone through my backyard, and then when caught by one of my kids, pretended like he wanted a drink.
They're all liars. DO NOT ENGAGE THEM unless you have to.
When I was a kid our downtown was amazing. Lots of little shops, sidewalks were clean, absolutely no risk of running into a nutter.
Sadly true, but society has enabled this.
Now, there's somebody living in many of the former shop entrances, their sprawl strewn into the walk. There are people shooting-up in broad daylight and passing out. We had a couple get totally zonked and KO'd on the island just across from our place back in the spring. I saw a guy totally collapsed, looked like he was dead, on the church steps. A friend of mine works downtown, one of his duties is sweeping up the needles so customers don't step on them. Things have totally gone to hell.
Society has gotten exactly what it asked for. I think it's great!
They all ride bicycles (which are stolen). They all carry backpacks. They feed their habits via theft and their actions have become more and more brazen.
You live in Canada, right? What are your lethal force laws?
My parents live in a nice area, near the old teachers college. Most houses are worth well north of $1M at this point, theirs probably around 1.5. Literally 6 houses away an elderly woman comes into her kitchen and there's an addict going through her purse. Terrified and in a panic, she flees to the neighbour's house, calls the police, there's a chase, they lose the crackhead, who managed to scuttle off through backyards like a spider monkey. It's terrifying for a mostly older population in that area who are extremely accustomed to feeling safe where they live and are defenseless.
Again, what are your lethal force laws?
One of their main sources of revenue has been people's unlocked cars. They go through, steal change and whatever else they can find, but things are now escalating.
Yes, thats how it do.
There's a local group that I'm a member of that's sort of like a city-wide neighbourhood watch that's trying to aide in tracking these individuals and helping people get their stuff back. For quite a stint you'd have the odd person call out "lock your doors" in response to somebody losing their stuff. Clearly, not helpful. That crowd has become quite quiet recently as locked vehicles are being broken into. These hoppers are now carrying slim-jims and other manner of break-in tools. They are going into people's houses. Last night, I had two crappy bikes stolen off my deck, the guy was smart enough to stay out of frame of the camera (this is a first) but you could clearly see him weilding bolt cutters from the other side of my deck rail. With no consequences and a system of catch-and-release, there is literally no deterrent for these people to just continuously up the level of how bold they can be.
Like...again...what are your laws regarding lethal force?

I see media attention given to groups promoting safe injection sites, more free needles (a local group gave out 750,000 needles in 2019, only 235,000 made their way into the return bins...) and a "compassionate approach". Clearly, this isn't working and in fact appears to be making the situation dramatically worse. These people need treatment within the confines of a treatment facility, not a fresh needle and a place to shoot-up. Enablement isn't compassion, it's lazy, these people need a hand-up not a hand-out. When you are having to train downtown shop staff how to revive folks with Narcan perhaps it would be wise to revisit the effectiveness of what you've deemed a "solution".

You now live in the society that a majority of your fellow countrymen wanted. Do not look to the junkie for blame. They are just taking advantage of the gift given them by the voters.

 

[OVERKILL]

You now live in the society that a majority of your fellow countrymen wanted. Do not look to the junkie for blame. They are just taking advantage of the gift given them by the voters.

On the self-defence laws, use of force needs to be proportionate to the threat and you WILL be charged. If it is found that your use of force was reasonable, those charges will be dropped. In the interim, you are grossly inconvenienced and essentially treated like a felon for protecting you and yours. It's, umm, not ideal....

 

[JHZR2]

On the self-defence laws, use of force needs to be proportionate to the threat and you WILL be charged. If it is found that your use of force was reasonable, those charges will be dropped. In the interim, you are grossly inconvenienced and essentially treated like a felon for protecting you and yours. It's, umm, not ideal....

Even in Texas I suspect that folks won’t go free if they used lethal force over a bicycle or inanimate object. Regardless of the story given about fearing for safety and life.

Though I despise every last bit of drug culture, including marijuana, and see it as low class and unnecessary… and recognize drugged up thieves as horrible humans.

It’s too easy to be a website armchair quarterback.

That said, I suspect there haven’t been enough victims based upon the way some folks talk (not necessarily on here….).

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I was watching NATGEO a few weeks ago about Opioids being sold on the streets. I was very shocked to find out that one of my pain meds I take is being sold on the street for $15-$30 each. And, what's even worse, those that are buying them are crushing them, then snorting them. WTH!

 

[ekrampitzjr]

I was watching NATGEO a few weeks ago about Opioids being sold on the streets. I was very shocked to find out that one of my pain meds I take is being sold on the street for $15-$30 each. And, what's even worse, those that are buying them are crushing them, then snorting them. WTH!

Crushing and snorting was common with oxycodone to get the rush all at once. Oxycodone was intended as a timed-release medication as it slowly dissolved in the digestive system, but crushing it defeated that. Supposedly it was reformulated to answer that.

There are serious questions about the pharma companies and their culpability in the drug epidemic. As the prescriptions were changed or became harder to get, some of those addicted to opioids turned to heroin and other illicit stuff.

Oxycodone was originally meant for the likes of cancer patients in extreme pain, but two things happened. First, doctors were encouraged to prescribe it for every kind of pain. That was big bucks for Big Pharma.

Second, every pharmacy even in sparsely populated Appalachia had huge supplies of what was originally meant to be prescribed only for the worst pain. There just weren't that many Stage 4 cancer patients in West Virginia to warrant the wide distribution of oxycodone. Suddenly you had loads of addicts buying pills on the street. Now those addicts have moved to illicit stuff. Only recently did anyone acknowledge Big Pharma's role in all this.

The blowback has affected responsible people who need opioid pain relief, because prescriptions for those drugs are under a lot of scrutiny now. My primary care doctor has said she refers everyone claiming to be in chronic pain to a pain specialist, because she cannot take the risk of prescribing these drugs herself.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I'm not going to say 'the majority of' but of all the LEO's I interact with, myself included, think that social programs for things like that should be better funded. One of the things I actually agree with out of the 'Defund the Police' movement. I've probably got between 20-30 people in my jail (out of ~250) that should not be here and should be in some form of mental or severe substance abuse program, but they don't exist or are already overfull, so I get to deal with them. It takes up the majority of my time and causes me the most problems. I would love for those that need that kind of help to be able to get it and not be in jail.

Now, sending a social worker out to a suicidal call without law enforcement, that's a good way to get social workers killed, but I certainly think there's a place for one on scene after it is secured to handle the mental/substance side of the call.

All of the cities across America that chose to defund their police departments are now admitting that they made a HUGE mistake by doing so. They are now scurrying to get the money back to them. Some of those defunded police towns crime rates have risen over 76%! Did these IDIOTS that chose to defund police departments actually think that the crime rate would go down, or just disappear? SMH!
BACK THE BLUE!

 

[ctechbob]

All of the cities across America that chose to defund their police departments are now admitting that they made a HUGE mistake by doing so. They are now scurrying to get the money back to them. Some of those defunded police towns crime rates have risen over 76%! Did these IDIOTS that chose to defund police departments actually think that the crime rate would go down, or just disappear? SMH!
BACK THE BLUE!

The defunding is only part of it. Hiring for LE positions has always been a struggle. After 2020 it has gotten downright difficult/impossible to retain and/or hire good candidates. These whole last couple years are going to have lasting effects for a long time to come.

I would be lying if I didn't say I've looked a couple of times at hitting the eject switch for myself lately and I'm not even a patrol deputy. I only have to deal with people after they've been arrested, but constantly being short-staffed is taking a toll.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

The defunding is only part of it. Hiring for LE positions has always been a struggle. After 2020 it has gotten downright difficult/impossible to retain and/or hire good candidates. These whole last couple years are going to have lasting effects for a long time to come.

I would be lying if I didn't say I've looked a couple of times at hitting the eject switch for myself lately and I'm not even a patrol deputy. I only have to deal with people after they've been arrested, but constantly being short-staffed is taking a toll.

You're absolutely correct! I didn't want to go into detail about LEO hiring because I'm not that educated about it. But, watching the news and reading it online, I do know there is a LEO shortage. I will only delve on one reason why; LEO feel as if they're now the perps! That's why so many of them are taking early retirement. It's sad that the tables have turned on them, especially right here in America! SMH! I better stop here..................
BACK THE BLUE!

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

Crushing and snorting was common with oxycodone to get the rush all at once. Oxycodone was intended as a timed-release medication as it slowly dissolved in the digestive system, but crushing it defeated that. Supposedly it was reformulated to answer that.

There are serious questions about the pharma companies and their culpability in the drug epidemic. As the prescriptions were changed or became harder to get, some of those addicted to opioids turned to heroin and other illicit stuff.

Oxycodone was originally meant for the likes of cancer patients in extreme pain, but two things happened. First, doctors were encouraged to prescribe it for every kind of pain. That was big bucks for Big Pharma.

Second, every pharmacy even in sparsely populated Appalachia had huge supplies of what was originally meant to be prescribed only for the worst pain. There just weren't that many Stage 4 cancer patients in West Virginia to warrant the wide distribution of oxycodone. Suddenly you had loads of addicts buying pills on the street. Now those addicts have moved to illicit stuff. Only recently did anyone acknowledge Big Pharma's role in all this.

The blowback has affected responsible people who need opioid pain relief, because prescriptions for those drugs are under a lot of scrutiny now. My primary care doctor has said she refers everyone claiming to be in chronic pain to a pain specialist, because she cannot take the risk of prescribing these drugs herself.

The book Dreamland by Sam Quinones explores this in vivid detail. One chapter is about the Walmart shoplifting economy. Basically, dealers would pay half the retail price of stolen merchandise in pills. For example, $200 worth of stolen goods would get you an OxyContin 80 and an oxycodone 20. Some rural towns had whole underground economies based not on dollar denominations but on pill milligrams. A lot of addicts switched to cheap heroin because the pharmaceutical opioids were so expensive.