The hypocrisy of selective anger

[dnewton3]

I was having a conversation with someone recently and was told I was being rude and insensitive. My lingual crime? I referred to something as "retarded" in the conversation. In fact, when I was confronted, the phrase the young woman said to me was "You shouldn't use the R word", in a condescending tone. What the everloving heck? The "R word"? Geeezzz ... I didn't even call a person retarded; I was implying that a specific process was illogical and not founded in facts. But nonetheless, I was chastised. I said "Well, how can I refer to this so that it doesn't offend you?" (in a half-serious, half-patronizing manner). I was then told by the (self-righteous) person that I should have chosen a different word; something like "idiotic or mornonic".

HA! Obviously this person doesn't understand the basic history of terms like moron, idiot, imbecil, etc. These are all ranking terms used clinically in categorizing people with low IQ. Hence, "retarded" would be a general classification, whereas "idiot" would be a specific sub-classification. (Kind of like red is a color, but not all colors are red; red being a subclass of the color spectrum). I took the opportunity to point this out to her; she even looked up the origin of the words on her phone, and then began a side-step excuse about "Words can be violent ..."
Blah Blah Blah ... She was caught in her own hypocrisy, and I enjoyed every second of it. Still, she actually doubled down and said "retarded" is offensive but referring to something as stupid, idiotic or moronic is not. So, it's a bad thing to classify someone, but not a bad thing to subclassify someone?

These terms refer to clinical division of developmental capability:
Idiots: IQ between 0-25
Imbeciles: IQ between 26-50
Moron: IQ between 51-70

Note: "stupid" has an origin of being in a stupor; not necessarily a mental defect condition as much as a physical effect such as a result of being intoxicated, or enduring a blow to the head and becoming dazed, etc, and unless permanent damage is done, one can recover from a stupor.


The selective anger to some things by some folks just befuddles me to no end. It's as if they want to be combative and disagreeable merely to make themselves seem unique and holier-than-thou. Often these kinds of folks exude hypocrisy; typically from their own ignorance of the facts and true nature of topics, words, etc.


So, in summary, it's OK for me to call something "moronic" or "idiotic", but not "the R word".
IMO, the whole topic is retarded ...

 

[TiGeo]

You are splitting hairs about words that nobody associates with a person's disability. Retarded as in mentally retarded as in Down's Syndrome is a bit more pointed. I say it sometimes BTW but am cautious to only do so in front of folks that I know it doesn't bother or have children with downs (I am friends with a few...the word to me is disassociated with the condition at this point but...). Let me ask you this...if you knew someone with a daughter with Down's would you say that something was retarded in front of them? Or better how would you feel if you did to someone you didn't know and they told you they had a daughter with Down's unbeknownst to you would you continue to use that word in front of them? What about if your daughter had Down's? Things progress (not always for the better sometimes) but there are plenty of words that in 2023 are considered derogatory that weren't in 1982 so minding your ps/qs is just reality and at least understanding why should be easy to understand...

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Right, because this thread adds anything of value of this site.

It's as if dnewton3 wants to be combative and disagreeable merely to make himself seem unique and holier-than-thou.

 

[earlyre]

I Get WHAT you are saying... and that it's technically correct...

but there's a fine line you're straddling ...

having said that, a few years ago, the County Board of Mental Retardation and Developmental Disabilities (MRDD), a Governmental Entity, Dropped the First half of the descriptive part of their name, to just the "County Board of Developmental Disabilities" (DD) , they went so far as to have a ceremony where they gathered some of their clients, and buried ( as in had a mock Funeral for) the M&R they removed from the front of the building....

it made good local press at least....

the name change wasn't just a local thing, it was statewide.... the "funeral" was just a local thing...

 

[dnewton3]

You are splitting hairs about words that nobody associates with a person's disability. Retarded as in mentally retarded as in Down's Syndrome is a bit more pointed. I say it sometimes BTW but am cautious to only do so in front of folks that I know it doesn't bother or have children with downs (I am friends with a few). Let me ask you this...if you knew someone with a daughter with Down's would you say that something was retarded in front of them? Or better how would you feel if you did to someone you didn't know and they told you they had a daughter with Down's unbeknownst to you would you continue to use that word in front of them? Things progress (not always for the better) but there are plenty of words that in 2023 are considered derogatory that weren't in 1982.

Again - I didn't refer to a person as retarded; I was speaking of a thing and not a human.

As for your question about knowing someone with Downs ... I have a friend whose daughter has it. My friend uses the term "retarded" in both proper and colloquial contextual reference. If it doesn't bother them, why should it bother me?


The point of my thread wasn't so much about the offense, but the hypocritical offended.
Again, how is it acceptable to say something or someone is moronic or idiotic, but not retarded?

Or, maybe consider it as a question this way ...
What isn't it bad to say something is mornic or idiotic? Those words refer to the same conditions as "retarded", just with more deliniarity.
No one gets their panties all waded up if you say "that's mornic ..." or "imbecilic".
Why the hypocrisy?

 

[MNgopher]

Interesting there is no recognition of the use of the word in question as a slur, similar to used in racial and other circumstances.

Use of other words were commonly acceptable in the past but are not in current culture. Sometimes it isn't about selective outrage, but listening to the people to whom the words have hurtful meaning and intent.

 

[bbhero]

Speaking of retarded, the moderation efforts of this board are retarded.

...and since OP is a mod, he's okay with throwing around the word "retard" as a descriptor for a process (content moderation is a process, not a person), and my reply is perfectly within the rules.

Well people like you love being the “ speech police “.

And yes people… We all have the ABILITY to decide to be OFFENDED or NOT….

You give another person CONTROL over you by making that choice.

I have been called every bad name you can think of…. While at worked in a hospital. By patients.. A very, very, very small number of them.

That did not offend me at all. . .

 

[TiGeo]

Again - I didn't refer to a person as retarded; I was speaking of a thing and not a human.

As for your question about knowing someone with Downs ... I have a friend whose daughter has it. My friend uses the term "retarded" in both proper and colloquial contextual reference.


The point of my thread wasn't so much about the offense, but the hypocritical offended.
Again, how is it acceptable to say something or someone is moronic or idiotic, but not retarded?

Someone went off on me one time online about a discussion where I said my timing was retarded...hahaha. They had no idea what that meant.

 

[TiGeo]

Your use of the term could still easily be offensive to many people today and that specific use IS the issue most folks get worked up about....something being dumb/slow/etc. You can't escape that that word is associated with a disability even in that context. Again...tell your friend with a Down's child the same thing same context....

 

[dnewton3]

Right, because this thread adds anything of value of this site.

It's as if dnewton3 wants to be combative and disagreeable merely to make himself seem unique and holier-than-thou.

This is no less valuable than a bazillion other topics we see discussed over and over and over ... about the most mundane things more appropriate on FB or IG. It's the GaOT section; you get that, right?

I wasn't being combative. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of people want to pick and choose words to fight over as if their definition is the only acceptable one.

 

[bbhero]

Your use of the term could still easily be offensive to many people today and that specific use IS the issue most folks get worked up about....something being dumb/slow/etc. You can't escape that that word is associated with a disability even in that context. Again...tell your friend with a Down's child the same thing same context....

And that friend has a CHOICE to be “ offended” or not to be “offended”.

Why give another person that authority over our lives ? ?

 

[TiGeo]

And that friend has a CHOICE to be “ offended” or not to be “offended”.

Why give another person that authority over our lives ? ?

If you know something bothers your friend and you keep doing it...you're not much of a friend.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

I was having a conversation with someone recently and was told I was being rude and insensitive. My lingual crime? I referred to something as "retarded" in the conversation. In fact, when I was confronted, the phrase the young woman said to me was "You shouldn't use the R word", in a condescending tone. What the everloving heck? The "R word"? Geeezzz ... I didn't even call a person retarded; I was implying that a specific process was illogical and not founded in facts. But nonetheless, I was chastised. I said "Well, how can I refer to this so that it doesn't offend you?" (in a half-serious, half-patronizing manner). I was then told by the (self-righteous) person that I should have chosen a different word; something like "idiotic or mornonic".

HA! Obviously this person doesn't understand the basic history of terms like moron, idiot, imbecil, etc. These are all ranking terms used clinically in categorizing people with low IQ. Hence, "retarded" would be a general classification, whereas "idiot" would be a specific sub-classification. (Kind of like red is a color, but not all colors are red; red being a subclass of the color spectrum). I took the opportunity to point this out to her; she even looked up the origin of the words on her phone, and then began a side-step excuse about "Words can be violent ..."
Blah Blah Blah ... She was caught in her own hypocrisy, and I enjoyed every second of it. Still, she actually doubled down and said "retarded" is offensive but referring to something as stupid, idiotic or moronic is not. So, it's a bad thing to classify someone, but not a bad thing to subclassify someone?

These terms refer to clinical division of developmental capability:
Idiots: IQ between 0-25
Imbeciles: IQ between 26-50
Moron: IQ between 51-70

Note: "stupid" has an origin of being in a stupor; not necessarily a mental defect condition as much as a physical effect such as a result of being intoxicated, or enduring a blow to the head and becoming dazed, etc, and unless permanent damage is done, one can recover from a stupor.


The selective anger to some things by some folks just befuddles me to no end. It's as if they want to be combative and disagreeable merely to make themselves seem unique and holier-than-thou. Often these kinds of folks exude hypocrisy; typically from their own ignorance of the facts and true nature of topics, words, etc.


So, in summary, it's OK for me to call something "moronic" or "idiotic", but not "the R word".
IMO, the whole topic is retarded ...

I like how you can post about something where you are 100% in the wrong, but you can justify it how you want and there's no moderator/administrator that will take you down the road for it. People are going to have an opinion 180 degrees about this from you, and could potentially get banned from this site for saying what they should to you, but you will receive no action for your idiotic post.

 

[TiGeo]

This is no less valuable than a bazillion other topics we see discussed over and over and over ... about the most mundane things more appropriate on FB or IG. It's the GaOT section; you get that, right?

I wasn't being combative. I am pointing out the hypocrisy of people want to pick and choose words to fight over as if their definition is the only acceptable one.

You're still not seeing that this is a pretty common word to bother people in 2023...it's not really strange. Your use of it is antiquated and your defense of it/not at least understanding why someone is offended (didn't say don't say it) is pretty....obtuse and...dare I say...retarded?

 

[buster]

I've used the word many times and was called out for it, especially from my friends that are educators in special education. Apparently today you can't say that. In fact, there are many things today we used to say that are no longer acceptable by many.

 

[JavierH19]

I do rarely use it to express deep disdain about something in English though i even more rarely use it in Spanish because it's even more derogatory in Spanish than how it is for modern westerners. But i agree that people are too sensitive about it, though i don't care for making a conversation go south so i never use it with those that I'm not very close to.

But on another note I can't say that you wouldn't immediately ban any one of us if it were us typing up this exact thread you posted though. I wonder what the other moderators would say.

 

[dnewton3]

Your use of the term could still easily be offensive to many people today and that specific use IS the issue most folks get worked up about....something being dumb/slow/etc. You can't escape that that word is associated with a disability even in that context. Again...tell your friend with a Down's child the same thing same context....

I was taught that communication is a function of intent, perception, and context of the moment.
Obviously using the words retarded, moron or idiot can be specific, derogatory and hurtful by intent.
Or those same words can be offered in generic and benign intent.
Much of this comes down to tone.

I didn't mention this, and maybe I should have included it in my first telling of the story, but of the group involved with the conversation, she was the only one who took offense; all the others understand the underlying jest I was poking at the process. My tone was understood and accepted by all others except her; she was the "odd man out" so to speak. (Oh no ... now I've misgendered her ... someone will probably take offense to that also).

What I find fault with is the hypocrisy of "retarded" being offensive but "idiotic" not. In the situation I explained, why is her perception more important than my intent? What makes her position favorable and mine unfavorable, especially when the entire topic is directly related (that of terms used to describe mental disability)? She is welcome to find my comment offensive, and I'm perfectly in my realm to consider her objection silly, ostentatious, and uneducated.

The grand irony is that her solution to resolve my offense was to use yet more terms from the same realm of clinical assessments.
Kind of like saying "Don't you dare use that color called Rose Red. Use only Blood Red or Sunset Red."

 

[thastinger]

95% of humanity offends me...I've learned to live with it.

 

[LDB]

You are correct OP. Your detractor, like so many now days, is trying overly hard to be offended. Stop trying so hard to be offended. There's a word that in the 1950's was defined in the dictionary in the 1. position as "a trashy person". That's it. So any person on the planet could theoretically be called that word with no meaning beyond they were a trashy person. Over time that dropped and was removed. They no longer include that definition. It's now just defined by the slang insulting term. In our school library in the 60's we had the ten pound dictionary on the stand and it was there for all to see, and I saw it, "a trashy person". Stop trying so hard to be offended.

 

[Pew]

Social norms change. We're living in a constantly changing society so words and actions that may not have previously seen as offensive can become offensive and vise-versa.