The Blackstone Labs Newsletter quietly scrubbed from the internet...

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Navi

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This is a blast from the past!

In August 2017 Blackstone Labs published a newsletter of averages for a selected bunch of oils for the GM 5.3 liter V8 and the Subaru 2.5 liter turbo. Confirming what many Subaru enthusiasts knew at the time was Rotella T6 5W40 simply outperformed all of the various 5W30s. This was great news for Subaru turbo enthusiasts who used stage kits to push their engine past the limits! Honestly these Subaru guys were really pushing their cars on the track with vastly upgraded turbos. Im surprised they didnt go 5W50 for what they were doing!

However it was bad news for Amsoil as the averages demonstrated that cheaper oils sold at Walmart could compete with it. Pennzoil and Castrol were not far behind Amsoil.

At some point Blackstone quietly removed the report from its website. Link to a pdf copy of that report here: https://files.fm/u/z3ub627wt

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Wear protection is just one aspect of a good lubricant. The ability to clean, and keep clean, are also important and are near impossible to gauge without teardown. On top of that, @PimTac is absolutely right, and Blackstone has said the same thing themselves.
 
Cujet said:
The only way to assess engine wear is to measure the wear physically.
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If multiple UOAs show high levels of metals like iron, copper, lead, etc, it ain't coming from the engine oil. Those are from the engine and physical measurements, with accurate enough tools, will confirm that. Then again, I don't think any (brand) engine oil will stop it or even show substantial reduction.
 
The main point behind the newsletter was to answer the question they receive most which is "What oil should I use?" Then Blackstone shows their data and gives their opinion. Their opinion is that it really doesnt matter what you use.

Their customers asked a question and Blackstone replied back with an answer to their question based on the data they have on file.

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To be honest their newsletter was singing to the choir for myself. Im one who would steer more to brands like Pennzoil, Valvoline and Castrol. The engineers at those companies really put their back into this and create some great oils. I tend to think Mobil 1 rests on its laurels. Amsoil produces a great product, but is it that much better then whats on the Walmart shelf? I dont think so.

Blackstone simply posted what I already know which is just buy whatever is on sale at Walmart and dont worry about it.
 
Navi said:
The main point behind the newsletter was to answer the question they receive most which is "What oil should I use?" Then Blackstone shows their data and gives their opinion. Their opinion is that it really doesnt matter what you use.
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And you are...?:
A. attempting to refute their claim that oil choice doesn't matter?, or:
B. attempting to claim their data is incorrect.

Want to clear this up before we discuss further. And it's hardly "removed from the internet", a quick web search revealed this article on the second search line. It's even obviously still hosted on Blackstone's web server. So what's your angle??
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Navi said:
The main point behind the newsletter was to answer the question they receive most which is "What oil should I use?" Then Blackstone shows their data and gives their opinion. Their opinion is that it really doesn't matter what you use.
Click to expand...
Nothing could be farther from the truth. UOA results do not indicate internal engine condition. Or whether the oil will result in varnish, coking and carbon. The difference between stuck oil rings or not, is oil choice.

This should come as no surprise to anyone here.



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Cujet said:
Nothing could be farther from the truth. UOA results do not indicate internal engine condition. Or whether the oil will result in varnish, coking and carbon. The difference between stuck oil rings or not, is oil choice.

This should come as no surprise to anyone here.



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Gee, cujet, you're saying that oil control ring packs welded together from sludge and oxidized oils aren't good? :LOL:
 
I wouldnt buy any oil. In any event all the oils on the Walmart shelf are from known companies like Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Warren, Quaker State, Valvoline, Castrol and Shell. I would only choose a full synthetic from these brands and prefer a premium version. I trust they wont sludge or varnish the engine. In any event I change my oil every 3000 miles so I dont think sludge is an issue.

So I dont think there is an issue choosing the on sale premium full synthetic from those well known brands. Seems like the onsale price is $21 for 5 quarts and off sale is $29...and if its the awesome Pennzoil Ultra Platinum $30+.
 
Navi said:
I wouldnt buy any oil. In any event all the oils on the Walmart shelf are from known companies like Mobil 1, Pennzoil, Warren, Quaker State, Valvoline, Castrol and Shell. I would only choose a full synthetic from these brands and prefer a premium version. I trust they wont sludge or varnish the engine. In any event I change my oil every 3000 miles so I dont think sludge is an issue.

So I dont think there is an issue choosing the on sale premium full synthetic from those well known brands. Seems like the onsale price is $21 for 5 quarts and off sale is $29...and if its the awesome Pennzoil Ultra Platinum $30+.
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Yet we've seen evidence of carbon build up being removed from engines that ran off-the-shelf full synthetics after switching to High Performance Lubricants products.

I'm not really sure what the point was for this thread? @SubieRubyRoo disproved that Blackstone "quietly scrubbed" this article. An article that, by the way, that hashed out what was already known- UOAs cannot be used to compare oil performance. You started this thread by re-emphasizing Blackstone's point that oil performance between brands is nearly indistinguishable when it comes to wear metals, yet would look to buy the "known companies... premium oil". You called this "good news" for turbocharged Subaru folks using T6 5W-40 as it "simply outperformed" the various 5W-30s, despite this being an obvious apples-to-oranges comparison. You call this "bad news" for people that run Amsoil due to the similar wear protection performance to other brands, yet you (and Blackstone, for that matter) have no idea what's happening on the ring lands. As I alluded to in my first statement, it's clear after users on this board have switched to a truly premium oil, that full synthetic offerings from "known companies" have left behind carbon build up.

Yet despite all that, Blackstone's findings are correct. Run any brand of oil you want in the proper spec and from a wear protection standpoint, your engine will be just fine. You're the one who's been sweating what oil to run in your Navigator, searching for "the best oil on the planet". I think you've completed your quest, I guess.

What I'd be interested to know is how many oil-burning engines are doing so because of carbon build up on the rings due to the oil used by the owner. It's impossible to know, and I'm not going to waste time worrying about it, but it would be interesting to see what that data looks like.
 
Hall said:
If multiple UOAs show high levels of metals like iron, copper, lead, etc, it ain't coming from the engine oil. Those are from the engine and physical measurements, with accurate enough tools, will confirm that. Then again, I don't think any (brand) engine oil will stop it or even show substantial reduction.
Click to expand...


No… UOAs are not best used for that purpose.

Cujet is right. And so are Dr Molakule, Overkill and TomNJ.
 
I drive 70000 miles a year with stop&go and heavy idle. This is my livelhood and not a casual commuting car. If the car doesnt run I dont make money. So its important to me to know the best maintenance items for the car. The 3.5L V6 Ecoboost Ive been married to since 2018 has brought me some challenges.

The formulas Im seeing out there now are tight and the only difference seems to be resistance to fuel dilution or shearing. Pre-API SP when I ran these tests the iron wear was much greater and varied depending on the oil. Now with API SP in this engine Im seeing 7 to 10 per 3000 miles of iron wear. Resistance to fuel dilution or shearing was also a big problem in 2018 oils and so much so I turned to Mobil 1 Delvac 5W40 ESP...the 5W30 version wasnt out at that time. Today the API SP formulas are a little more resistant.

The best 5W30 API SP oil out of all the oils I tested is Quaker State 5W40 Euro. Its not a 5W40 but a thick 5W30. The viscosity stayed in the 10s unlike the other oils which were 8s to mid-9s.

These are the best oils so far and the best engines so far unlike the nightmares of the 2018 3.5L V6 Ecoboost.
 
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