Thankful for law enforcement

Shot your dog!?!

I’m just speechless…at the whole story.
I shot my neighbor's dog years ago. My kids were young and scared of him. He would come across the street from 3 houses down and chase my kids in the house. One morning as I had the garage door open to take out my trash, he came barking at me. Wrong move.

I shot him in the butt and he stayed out of our yard after that. But it was only a pellet gun and did no damage.

Keep the dog at home and problem solved.
 
Because of the horrible treatment I got after returning home from the military in the mid sixtys, I didn`t tell people about my service. After 40 years and 911 if at a meeting or town function when asked if any veterans were present to please stand I would. When someone thanks me for my service I thank them with much appreciation, it helps.
 
Keep the dog at home and problem solved.
I guess that would have worked but no one in that rural neighborhood ever needed to keep their dogs tied or fenced before he moved in. I prefer “don’t move to a new area and tell your neighbors how to act and you won’t have to hide in your house for fear of them making you poop out your own teeth”

In the end my dog lived he just had a funny gait afterwards. So everything really went down WAY better than it could have. He was a bully that always open carried, I don’t know how far he’d have been willing to go. I was a young man that drank too much, was at a dark place in my life and had horrible mental health. I WOULD have escalated the situation into a physical confrontation even with the knowledge that he would be armed.
 
I guess that would have worked but no one in that rural neighborhood ever needed to keep their dogs tied or fenced before he moved in. I prefer “don’t move to a new area and tell your neighbors how to act and you won’t have to hide in your house for fear of them making you poop out your own teeth”

In the end my dog lived he just had a funny gait afterwards. So everything really went down WAY better than it could have. He was a bully that always open carried, I don’t know how far he’d have been willing to go. I was a young man that drank too much, was at a dark place in my life and had horrible mental health. I WOULD have escalated the situation into a physical confrontation even with the knowledge that he would be armed.
Understood. I would be upset if a neighbor shot mine too with an AR-15.

Neighbor boys had a couple snarly dogs keep coming to me baring their teeth a couple years go. Grabbed my Granddaughter's Crossman 760 one morning. It took 2 BB's each, then they went home and never came back. BB's won't do damage like an AR-15. Just teaches them a lesson, associating my yard with pain.
 
I have a personal policy, when I'm not at work, no one knows I wear a badge. I feel somewhat lucky that I don't have a take-home car and if you met me on the street you'd never know. It's not that I'm scared, or that I'm not proud of the profession, we have a pretty good group of guys in our agency and the bad ones get weeded out pretty quick. I just don't take my job home with me. There are no 'blue line' stickers on anything I own, no personalized law enforcement tags, no tattoo's, etc etc. (I also feel it could possibly be somewhat safer for my family to go unknown).

Even in uniform I always have payment out and ready if I'm eating somewhere or stopping at a store for a drink. I will tell the person I'm happy to pay at least twice before I'll accept anything free or discounted.
 
Because of the horrible treatment I got after returning home from the military in the mid sixtys, I didn`t tell people about my service. After 40 years and 911 if at a meeting or town function when asked if any veterans were present to please stand I would. When someone thanks me for my service I thank them with much appreciation, it helps.
The way you were treated is a travesty. It was wrong.

Let me personally, publicly, thank you for your service.

The pendulum has certainly swung to the other side since the days of your return home.
 
I have a personal policy, when I'm not at work, no one knows I wear a badge. I feel somewhat lucky that I don't have a take-home car and if you met me on the street you'd never know. It's not that I'm scared, or that I'm not proud of the profession, we have a pretty good group of guys in our agency and the bad ones get weeded out pretty quick. I just don't take my job home with me. There are no 'blue line' stickers on anything I own, no personalized law enforcement tags, no tattoo's, etc etc. (I also feel it could possibly be somewhat safer for my family to go unknown).

Even in uniform I always have payment out and ready if I'm eating somewhere or stopping at a store for a drink. I will tell the person I'm happy to pay at least twice before I'll accept anything free or discounted.
Well, we haven’t met, but as a customer standing in line behind a uniformed officer, I’ve picked up the check many times.

With tap cards and Apple Pay, I can grab the bill quite easily. Not much you can do to decline the offer if I’ve already tapped the phone to the point of sale…

Most recently, in New Haven, CT on a Friday evening.

Cheers,
 
Because of the horrible treatment I got after returning home from the military in the mid sixtys, I didn`t tell people about my service. After 40 years and 911 if at a meeting or town function when asked if any veterans were present to please stand I would. When someone thanks me for my service I thank them with much appreciation, it helps.
Thank you for your service. Nobody should be treated as so many of you were then.
 
I'm all for them, it's just the bad apples that stain the good. :mad:
Very true. The bad apples give everyone a bad name. And the good apples are embarrassed, angered and appalled by the actions of those bad apples.

I would note, however, that "bad apples" occur in every walk of life; it's not limited to LEOs by any stretch of the imagination.
- lawyers aren't exactly loved by all, for a variety of reasons
- doctors who violate their patients trust and body (MSU's Nassar with the young gymnasts, or Cline who impregnated his fertility clients with his own sperm and has dozens if not hundreds of living children)
- firemen who start fires just to be "heroes" and put the fire out ("hero syndrome" is a thing in this profession)
- motorcyclists who ride recklessly and endanger others; and the "biker gangs" who deal drugs and traffic humans
- leaders who abuse children (houses of faith; Scouting; Boys/Girls Clubs all as examples)
- teachers who engage in inappropriate physical/social media relationships with students
- nurses who kill patients (Charles Cullen as just one example)
- technicians who rip off vulnerable customers with bogus or unnecessary equipment repairs (vehicles, appliances, home repair)
- caregivers who abuse their elderly patients knowing that those patients are compromised (can't speak; diminished mental capacity, etc)
- and the list goes on forever ...

I agree that bad cops are deplorable and should be rooted out. But they're not alone by any means.
Evil knows no bounds.
 
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I am frustrated and equally amazed at police force locally.

My two daughters think cops are angry by the person directing school traffic (9 year old school) and how he motions with anger at parents/yells and I have seen him pulling folks over similar . Equally the resource officer is amazing at school.

My other daughter 17 has never had a positive interaction with police including getting pulled over because the friends car she was driving (99 Gold Accord with Maine plates) must have weed as opener from ritzy town cop. No ticket/reason given for stop and a passenger in car who’s dad is local judge rang him up FaceTime and officer was spoken to on stop. Other times simply walking after dark and stopped with friends same neighboring town. Actually told they could not walk after dark.

I wish they gave better impression for daughters.
 
during/after the war, and being shat and spit on and worse, as I was, you might see the current actions as a "getting their due". And long overdue




I agree in a sense but some do act entitled and such and that makes it bad for others. I was at Advance store once where my buddy worked and a guy in line demanded a veteran discount. Buddy says policy is for active retired and Guards. The customer says he fought in Nam and deserved discount regardless. Buddy says well if you were in military then you should understand rules and he (buddy) said he had rules to follow also. The customer threw his coffee cup at him and left the store. Of course buddy got his license number and reply him to cops.

Anyway next in line was a very old gentleman with a marine cap on and he jokingly said that he didn’t expect a .discount. I made small talk with him to find out he joined the Corps in 1939 because his family were farmers and no work available in town. He ended up at Pearl Harbor and you know what happened there. My buddy looked at him and said well Sir,you qualify for the Navy discount of 25percent. Old guy said (I swear he had a tear in his eye) that he didn’t deserve it and regular military discount was 10 percent!! Bud said well Ihe was in Navy and you’re not a D&&k like the other guy!

Good and bad apples!
 
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Very true. The bad apples give everyone a bad name. And the good apples are embarrassed, angered and appalled by the actions of those bad apples.

I would note, however, that "bad apples" occur in every walk of life; it's not limited to LEOs by any stretch of the imagination.
- lawyers aren't exactly loved by all, for a variety of reasons
- doctors who violate their patients trust and body (MSU's Nassar with the young gymnasts, or Cline who impregnated his fertility clients with his own sperm and has dozens if not hundreds of living children)
- firemen who start fires just to be "heroes" and put the fire out ("hero syndrome" is a thing in this profession)
- motorcyclists who ride recklessly and endanger others; and the "biker gangs" who deal drugs and traffic humans
- leaders who abuse children (houses of faith; Scouting; Boys/Girls Clubs all as examples)
- teachers who engage in inappropriate physical/social media relationships with students
- nurses who kill patients (Charles Cullen as just one example)
- technicians who rip off vulnerable customers with bogus or unnecessary equipment repairs (vehicles, appliances, home repair)
- caregivers who abuse their elderly patients knowing that those patients are compromised (can't speak; diminished mental capacity, etc)
- and the list goes on forever ...

I agree that bad cops are deplorable and should be rooted out. But they're not alone by any means.
Evil knows no bounds.
This is true, and police enforce the government’s policies. They are agents of the state with the power to use force. This is a unique profession in that regard. Pretty much no other profession has as consequential outcomes combined with as many protections for malpractice as policing.

Doctors, for example, who commit malpractice lose their medical license, face legal liability, and often face criminal charges. Medical malpractice can happen, but the systems in place disincentivizing it are strong, and the penalties are strong.

Police who commit malpractice are often protected by their unions and benefit from qualified immunity. No other profession handles life and death stakes as high with as much protection from malpractice and ability to benefit from existing (or even corrupt) power structures.

I agree malpractice and poor performers exist in every profession. I just think we have to recognize that it can be particularly visible, high-stakes, and difficult to truly root out when it comes to policing. A lot depends on the political climate and the particular cultures of each bureaucracy. I say this with several good friends who are police/detectives and great respect for the profession.
 
I'm the same way. No shirts with badges on them. No hats, no blue line flags. Nothing on the car. No one needs to know.
 
This is true, and police enforce the government’s policies. They are agents of the state with the power to use force. This is a unique profession in that regard. Pretty much no other profession has as consequential outcomes combined with as many protections for malpractice as policing.

Doctors, for example, who commit malpractice lose their medical license, face legal liability, and often face criminal charges. Medical malpractice can happen, but the systems in place disincentivizing it are strong, and the penalties are strong.

Police who commit malpractice are often protected by their unions and benefit from qualified immunity. No other profession handles life and death stakes as high with as much protection from malpractice and ability to benefit from existing (or even corrupt) power structures.

I agree malpractice and poor performers exist in every profession. I just think we have to recognize that it can be particularly visible, high-stakes, and difficult to truly root out when it comes to policing. A lot depends on the political climate and the particular cultures of each bureaucracy. I say this with several good friends who are police/detectives and great respect for the profession.
You make excellent points. I agree in general.

The topic of qualified immunity is a touchy one. It can be a great shield, or a terrible cloak. But generally for QI to apply, the officer must be reasonably following his training and SOP/protocols/policies. QI exists so that officers who do follow their departmental directives and state laws won't be sued or charged. Conversely, if an officer does not follow training and policy, then QI typically does not apply to them; they're exposed to suit and being charged.

Would you want to a job where you might get sued even though you followed all appropriate training and policy? This was the conundrum of the recent debacle in NM where the Gov directed an Emergency Order edict which most agree is a violation of the 2A. She wanted police officers to arrest people for just carrying guns in Albuquerque (and surrounding county). However, she (and the NM state legislature) recently eliminated the QI provisions in NM. So any cop who arrested someone for carrying a gun under her EO would be subject to civil suit. Talk about a conundrum !!!! Your boss directs you to arrest someone in clear violation of their civil rights, and has already stripped away your immunity for doing so. This is why many LEO agencies said they would not enforce the Emergency Order; with QI stripped away, any officer and/or agency that followed the EO was also likely to be sued for a violation of federal and state civil rights. These are the very reasons QI exists. Don't blame an officer for following policy and training; only blame an officer when he doesn't follow policy and training.

As for LEOs being protected by their unions, well, that's the way the system is supposed to work. If a union didn't make concerted efforts to protect their members, they could be sued for failure to provide representation/coverage. It's the same way when a UAW person is brought up for disciplinary actions; the company prosecutes and the union defends.

LEOs get special treatment for good reason. While they do hold a huge amount of responsibility, they also assume a huge amount of risk to their own life/limb. For a doctor or nurse, the patient really isn't life threatening to them. I agree there may be civil and legal consequences down the road, but pretty much every doctor/nurse has little fear of not going home at the end of their shift. Same is said for most of the other professions I mentioned (with the exception of firefighters). LE is the one service profession that has to make split second decisions simultaneously for the suspect's life, the public's life and the officer's life, while keeping in mind all the policies and training as the poo-show unravels in front of them. On top of that, now add in some screaming bystanders shoving cell-phone cameras in your face, and it's full-blown circus. Any officer that can keep his cool, affect the arrest, and does so while following policy, deserves to be protected by QI. Take away QI and no person in their right mind would ever take a LEO job in the future.
 
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Well, we haven’t met, but as a customer standing in line behind a uniformed officer, I’ve picked up the check many times.

With tap cards and Apple Pay, I can grab the bill quite easily. Not much you can do to decline the offer if I’ve already tapped the phone to the point of sale…

Most recently, in New Haven, CT on a Friday evening.

Cheers,
Ohh absolutely. I will usually offer a 'thank you, you certainly didn't have to do that', but I'll graciously accept it in that case.

There is one store owner that it has become a bit of a game with. I'll usually pick up two drinks at his store, and he'll want to give them to me, but I'll good-naturedly stand there and argue with him until he lets me pay for one of them. Super friendly guy and I know he does it for everyone, but I think our 'compromise' makes both of us feel better in the end.
 
You make excellent points. I agree in general.

The topic of qualified immunity is a touchy one. It can be a great shield, or a terrible cloak. But generally for QI to apply, the officer must be reasonably following his training and SOP/protocols/policies. QI exists so that officers who do follow their departmental directives and state laws won't be sued or charged. Conversely, if an officer does not follow training and policy, then QI typically does not apply to them; they're exposed to suit and being charged.

Would you want to a job where you might get sued even though you followed all appropriate training and policy? This was the conundrum of the recent debacle in NM where the Gov directed an Emergency Order edict which most agree is a violation of the 2A. She wanted police officers to arrest people for just carrying guns in Albuquerque (and surrounding county). However, she (and the NM state legislature) recently eliminated the QI provisions in NM. So any cop who arrested someone for carrying a gun under her EO would be subject to civil suit. Talk about a conundrum !!!! Your boss directs you to arrest someone in clear violation of their civil rights, and has already stripped away your immunity for doing so. This is why many LEO agencies said they would not enforce the Emergency Order; with QI stripped away, any officer and/or agency that followed the EO was also likely to be sued for a violation of federal and state civil rights. These are the very reasons QI exists. Don't blame an officer for following policy and training; only blame an officer when he doesn't follow policy and training.

As for LEOs being protected by their unions, well, that's the way the system is supposed to work. If a union didn't make concerted efforts to protect their members, they could be sued for failure to provide representation/coverage. It's the same way when a UAW person is brought up for disciplinary actions; the company prosecutes and the union defends.

LEOs get special treatment for good reason. While they do hold a huge amount of responsibility, they also assume a huge amount of risk to their own life/limb. For a doctor or nurse, the patient really isn't life threatening to them. I agree there may be civil and legal consequences down the road, but pretty much every doctor/nurse has little fear of not going home at the end of their shift. Same is said for most of the other professions I mentioned (with the exception of firefighters). LE is the one service profession that has to make split second decisions simultaneously for the suspect's life, the public's life and the officer's life, while keeping in mind all the policies and training as the poo-show unravels in front of them. On top of that, now add in some screaming bystanders shoving cell-phone cameras in your face, and it's full-blown circus. Any officer that can keep his cool, affect the arrest, and does so while following policy, deserves to be protected by QI. Take away QI and no person in their right mind would ever take a LEO job in the future.
I completely agree. Those are totally valid points. I can see issues and I can see the counter-points. I talk with my LEO friends about this subject a lot and it’s just so frustrating all around.

When police violate the law or people’s rights, it’s completely unacceptable. But police also deal with absolutely the most vile people in society daily, and perform remarkable acts of service. The same structures that can protect them from the cheating, lying criminal element (or even just dumb laws or policies) can be used to protect rotten cops, even entire rotten departments. It sucks.

I don’t have the answer, but personally I think if we simply had less crime in society in general, it would go a long way. Cops have to deal with so much bad stuff so often that it increases the chances for things to go bad just by sheer numbers.
 
@dnewton3 wrote law enforcement has under a split second to make life/death and implied other critical decisions.

Leaders are considered the very best if they can make seven to eight out of ten decisions correct. If a leader makes ten out of ten decisions correct, that leader never made a decision, but instead waited for the results of not making a decision and then picked the correct side.

Law enforcement officers do not have the luxury the best leaders have of making seven to eight out of ten decisions correct. Law enforcement officers, under huge duress and confusion in the most challenging situations must make ten out of ten decisions correct, in under a split second.

Law enforcement officers do in fact have a impossible mission.
 
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