Texas refineries shut down

[SteveSRT8]

Built on a swamp. Poor planning.

But seriously, no one can plan for a once in a lifetime storm. Just like no one can predict the weather with any certainty...

 

[WyrTwister]

Flooding

Some where / some how , I have gotten the impression that in flood prone areas , the " high ground " real estate is more expensive & the " low " ground real estate is more affordable . Is this generally accurate ?

If so , it would , at least partially , explain why the poor seem to be the people that get flooded out more often than the more affluent .

We are more likely to have tornadoes . Rarely if ever flooding . But if we do have an out of the ordinary rain , our storm water drainage systems are marginal .

 

[4WD]

That is a fair assessment - and in some cases (in the south) it goes way back in time to when land was given/sold cheap to former workers - they got the land that was not first choice for crops or cattle grazing ...
It was later split up many times and populated...
On the flip side - waterfront coastal property is expensive - but exposed...

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
In Florida Everytime we build a building or build a road it gets several retention ponds.
I seen none in Houston during the areal view. Even coming in to Orlando on a plane you see all the ponds it looks like your landing in a swamp.


I would imagine that any retaining ponds would be full anyway.

 

[WyrTwister]

Yes , I knew water front property can be more expensive in tourist of high dollar neighborhoods .

I guess I am too much of a dry land / poor boy type to go after water front real estate .

Our elevation is about 3,200 feet . Semi-arid climate .

You'll be safe out there .

PS We could use some of that fresh water from Houston , spread out over 365 days per year . But it would be a LONG pipe line !

 

[BrocLuno]

I never said it was W's fault. I said TX benefited economically by rapid development during his tenure. Ditto for R Perry. It's issues of lax regulations and storm water planning - TX is known example. No single politician is to blame. It's way of doing business ...

My guess is that they'll re-think some of this and start to put more emphasis on drainage as they move forward ...

You'all are right, no one plans for 40" of rain in 4 days. But when you build in low lying country, you gotta plan ahead - big time.

I hate that Cali has permit fees as high as some home prices elsewhere including the storm water permits, but we are getting pretty good at restoring marshes and floodways. Even the infamous LA River is getting restored to improve function.

I know first hand about flooding. I live on a river and saw 5 events last winter over flood stage. We do it because my wife has a registered culinary garden and we use the water in the "Cadillac Desert" like there is no end (two wells).

It's all trade-offs. So is the News Media for hunting down the most impacted and showing crying babies, etc.

Houston is having a moment that will effect future planning and retrofits. FEMA will call for revision of the flood maps. Some folks will raise their houses, others will leave/move.

IF global warming is partly to blame (intensity), then planning will have to include future events as large. It's on record now. So folks know what can happen. It will change the outlooks of many residents.

Tropical storms are likely going to get worse ...

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
No one plans drainage for 3' feet of rain fall though... Most places will have minor street and basement flooding with 6" rain in couple hours.


Exactly. The best planning and infrastructure in the world won't handle that.

I'm sure we'll all feel it once again in our home owner's insurance premiums.

 

[WyrTwister]

I firmly believe in climate change , been happening since day 1 . As to how much is caused by we humans , not so much .

But , hay , we are both entitled to our opinions . Part of being mostly free citizens .

But I have no desire to live in California . Or Houston .

But to those that do , best wishes .

 

[DBMaster]

Have you other Texas folks observed how many times Houston has flooded in the last twenty years? It's been several. A good friend of mine who lives in Conroe sent me photos of his property, with what looked like a small pond on it, over last weekend. He then sent me a photo from 2015 and it looked a river was flowing through his yard. This is bad, but it's par for the course. I recall photos of flooded downtown buildings from the early 2000s. There's no easy way to "fix" Houston and this state doesn't even have enough money to maintain the highways it has. That's why every new highway is a toll road. There's a big social cost to pimping out the state to corporate interests.

 

[4WD]

The Texas coast is flat - it all drains south at a gentle slope. And in the case of a hurricane towards an elevated tidal system...
The region handles normal rainfall but will always flood in select areas that were questionable for housing development - so they can always be used to fit a narrative. They are required to build retention ponds. Those were overflowing within hours.
If a large project is planned - the Corps of Engineers does the drainage assessment - for example, my niece is in real estate management - this is how they got wind of the XOM Campus and bought land next to it.

But I live in the Houston area - not the concrete jungle - small town. We are to the west and the hardest rain did not stall or move a massive dose at 1 MPH. I did not flood.

However - just a few years ago - we had a system stall and dump 17 inches in 5 hours. - this came after a week of rain. I flooded - but not to the point of evacuating, floors ruined etc - same house. No concrete jungle. When you spend hours and hours in the "red stuff" on radar - nothing on the coast does well. For flooding a large population this was the perfect storm.

 

[4WD]

It turned NNE and sped up to 9 mph so the rains are thinning out in Houston - lots to the east still ...

KHOU radar is a good website ...

 

[jhellwig]

My boss sent out an email today asking if any techs or pipelines wanted to go down there this weekend. I am not sure where you would begin draining water out of things.

 

[4WD]

Just checked KHOU radar -
It looks like the Mobil 1 BMT plant is getting dumped on (golden triangle at La state line)

 

[Panzerman]

I am not blaming any Politicians. I think it comes down more to greed and wanting to utilize realty and not putting in proper. Water won't perk through concrete and asphalt. We repaved 14 miles of highway and upgraded to add 7 retention pond plus overflow ditches. Everytime a building goes up it has to provide a pond for the loss of water perk. The sad part is now they are imposing a storm water tax on residents based on the amount of area you cover stopping water to ground about $120 a year per home.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
My boss sent out an email today asking if any techs or pipelines wanted to go down there this weekend. I am not sure where you would begin draining water out of things.


I'll bet a lot of guys in those fields are going to make some serious coin working OT in that area for weeks, and maybe months, to come...