Test drove a Tesla Model 3

[Cujet]

It is good to remember that overall efficiency of an EV from power plant to road is lower than comparable gasoline hybrids. The e-mpg posted on the window sticker is more than a little misleading.

While the promise of a solar powered electric car is somewhat of a reality for certain owners, real world electrical generation losses (power plant to grid to charger to battery, then at a later time from battery to motor to wheel) mean that the EV is not the answer to national energy savings. Nor do they cost less per mile with regard to energy costs vs. modern gas hybrids.


Hybrids like the Prius, Camry, Accord, Fusion and others all have "power-plants" with 40% or 41% efficiency along with the EV's regenerative braking/energy recovery advantages.

It is my belief that automotive propulsion system that consumes the least energy is the gasoline (or possibly diesel) hybrid.




From : https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml

"Energy efficient. EVs convert about 59%-62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels."

From: http://insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/...ars-between-a-power-plant-and-your-plug/

"Energy lost in [electric grid] transmission and distribution: About 6%"

From: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=107&t=3

"if the [electric power plant] heat rate is 10,500 Btu, the efficiency is 33%" (which is the average of coal plants) Of course other fuel burning power plant eff's vary by type, with a national fuel burning elec power plant average around 38-40%.

 

[Cujet]

Note: I love driving the various EV's. It seems the driving dynamics are about as close to ideal as possible. With amazing performance, hard acceleration, instant response, no downshifting, a low center of gravity, easily managed power output, lack of sound and drama, ease of managing traction, etc.

The reasons to purchase an EV really won't be to save the environment, but on their own substantial merits.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
I want a car that suits me.

Why should I have to change to fit my $63,000 purchase? It's a ridiculous thought.

Tesla's brand of "The Future" is not to my tastes, and clearly I'm not alone.

Do they give you the Kool-aid with the car, or do you have to buy and drink it on your own beforehand?

You're taking it awfully personally. They do things a different way. I don't see what the problem is if there are those who like it and those who don't. But nobody is drinking the Kool-Aid.

Plenty are drinking the Kool-aid - see the Tesla store employees that are happy their own stores are shutting down - they're fine losing their jobs because it is "good for Tesla."

See also the poster above: "It is clear this car is not for everyone. You gotta think differently; have an open mind."

It is this sort of self righteousness that drives me insane about Tesla owners. Couldn't possibly be anything wrong or weird about the car, it's something wrong with "normal" people - and only "Tesla people" somehow "get it."

It's the same smugness that wafted around in great plumes when the Prius rose to popularity.

I'm on board with electric cars - I'm not on board with paying a hefty premium to be a pioneer and be inconvenienced by my own enlightenment.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW


See also the poster above: "It is clear this car is not for everyone. You gotta think differently; have an open mind."


I did not intend to sound self righteous; apologies.I see your point.
My point is, the car is different, drives different. And is expensive.
My brother in law is not a good candidate for a Model 3 because he expects it to operate in a certain way. He struggled driving the car.
But he does wanna try again...
Open mind was a poor choice of words. But you have to accept the car for what it is, not what you expect or want it to be.
The car frustrates a lot of drivers.

The Model 3 is not for a lot of people; there are better choices depending on your personal needs.

 

[Vikas]

Do you know what I miss the most? Not having nice round analog tachometer or the speedometer! The digital speedo never gives you the same sensation as the analog needle racing furiously towards the "arrest me right now" speeds. Also not having the expected engine noise to go with the sensation of the raw acceleration just feels weird.

The number "116" just does not sound that impressive when it pops up without you even trying. I mean all I was trying to do was grab the empty space between two clusters of vehicles driving at about 75 mph on the highway on my commute.

It is a different experience and that is for sure.

 

[Vikas]

Re: Cujet

Only if you assume that inherent dollars that US government spends to make sure the supply of the gasoline flowing is NOT to be accounted for. But that gets in to inherent politics of oil and you and I both know that just derails the conversation about driving characteristics of electric car.

Personally, I know that I am NOT saving any money over similar gas powered car and I did not purchase it with that intention.

 

[KrisZ]

Just to clarify, I had a chance to drive a model S quite extensively, it was "just" the 85 version. Took it on the freeways, surface streets and I agree that they drive amazing and very different and that acceleration is something else. So my opinion of them is not just from something I read or watched on YouTube.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
I want a car that suits me.

Why should I have to change to fit my $63,000 purchase? It's a ridiculous thought.

Tesla's brand of "The Future" is not to my tastes, and clearly I'm not alone.

Do they give you the Kool-aid with the car, or do you have to buy and drink it on your own beforehand?

You're taking it awfully personally. They do things a different way. I don't see what the problem is if there are those who like it and those who don't. But nobody is drinking the Kool-Aid.

Plenty are drinking the Kool-aid - see the Tesla store employees that are happy their own stores are shutting down - they're fine losing their jobs because it is "good for Tesla."

See also the poster above: "It is clear this car is not for everyone. You gotta think differently; have an open mind."

It is this sort of self righteousness that drives me insane about Tesla owners. Couldn't possibly be anything wrong or weird about the car, it's something wrong with "normal" people - and only "Tesla people" somehow "get it."

It's the same smugness that wafted around in great plumes when the Prius rose to popularity.

I'm on board with electric cars - I'm not on board with paying a hefty premium to be a pioneer and be inconvenienced by my own enlightenment.


It's basically a luxury car. People buy luxury cars for all sorts of reason. Like luxury watches. You don't really need them when all phones have the time. Yet Rolex isn't going out of business anytime soon.

Don't think there's any kind of logic to it or justification to it.

I don't like them because they don't have enough luxuries! I prefer my Mercedes... Plus charging for me in the city is an issue so it's not even a real consideration.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by RayCJ
We already have a few underground mountain ranges filled with radioactive nuclear waste and we're praying those steel barrels filled with "hot" water wont rust-out for the next 50,000 years (LOL). Are we doing to build more nuclear plants and make that problem exponentially worse? Nuclear fusion has made great strides but the holy grail of "free" energy is at least 30-40 years away from being viable.


It sounds like you've been drinking the (tainted) Greenpeace brand of koolaide unfortunately.

1. Used reactor fuel is not liquid, it's a solid, stored in cement casks, and it generates very little heat as it slowly decays. The curve of post-reactor waste heat is why it spends roughly a decade in wet storage on-site at the plants before being shuffled into dry storage.

2. All used fuel has a ton of life left in it. It can be reprocessed or recycled in next-generation reactors. The result of that process is something with a far shorter lifespan and thus more flexible interim storage options.

3. Fusion has been "right around the corner" for decades. Fission exists presently and it's quite possible to create a closed fuel cycle by leveraging a breeder or minimizing the fuel cycle by reprocessing or using next-gen waste-burning reactors.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
It sounds like you've been drinking the (tainted) Greenpeace brand of koolaide unfortunately.



The only people to really drink the Kool Aid were members of the Jim Jones cult.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
It sounds like you've been drinking the (tainted) Greenpeace brand of koolaide unfortunately.



The only people to really drink the Kool Aid were members of the Jim Jones cult.


Fair enough

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
It sounds like you've been drinking the (tainted) Greenpeace brand of koolaide unfortunately.



The only people to really drink the Kool Aid were members of the Jim Jones cult.



... there's also the people, who like to OVERKILL their own opinion, by repeating catch-phrases and distorting someone else's opinion by invoking the name of an extremest group.

Most people have figured-out by by now that progress stops when discussion gets distorted with OVERKILL of stupid catch-phrases and comparisons. Some however are still in the learning phase (but might not quite reach the top).

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
It sounds like you've been drinking the (tainted) Greenpeace brand of koolaide unfortunately.



The only people to really drink the Kool Aid were members of the Jim Jones cult.

Flavor Aid actually.

 

[Ws6]

Until Tesla fixes their QA/QC, I don't care how cheap they get, or how fancy or fast off the line they are, I won't be buying one.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
It sounds like you've been drinking the (tainted) Greenpeace brand of koolaide unfortunately.



The only people to really drink the Kool Aid were members of the Jim Jones cult.



... there's also the people, who like to OVERKILL their own opinion, by repeating catch-phrases and distorting someone else's opinion by invoking the name of an extremest group.

Most people have figured-out by by now that progress stops when discussion gets distorted with OVERKILL of stupid catch-phrases and comparisons. Some however are still in the learning phase (but might not quite reach the top).



Right, because hyperbolic fear mongering is the moral high-ground here?

Is your internal TomTom really that far out of whack that this is the road you are going to take?

There's nothing virtuous in disseminating ignorance. if being called out on nonsense immediately prompts this sort of childish response, it completely debases the purported advocacy of "progress" you allude to.

You provided some Greenpeace-esque opinion, I noted as much and simply countered it with facts. Where this goes from here is up to you, but my intention certainly wasn't for things to go in this direction

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by Vikas
Do you know what I miss the most? Not having nice round analog tachometer or the speedometer! The digital speedo never gives you the same sensation as the analog needle racing furiously towards the "arrest me right now" speeds. Also not having the expected engine noise to go with the sensation of the raw acceleration just feels weird.

The number "116" just does not sound that impressive when it pops up without you even trying. I mean all I was trying to do was grab the empty space between two clusters of vehicles driving at about 75 mph on the highway on my commute.

It is a different experience and that is for sure.
l

Agree... I much prefer analog dials.

 

[RayCJ]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by RayCJ
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
It sounds like you've been drinking the (tainted) Greenpeace brand of koolaide unfortunately.



The only people to really drink the Kool Aid were members of the Jim Jones cult.



... there's also the people, who like to OVERKILL their own opinion, by repeating catch-phrases and distorting someone else's opinion by invoking the name of an extremest group.

Most people have figured-out by by now that progress stops when discussion gets distorted with OVERKILL of stupid catch-phrases and comparisons. Some however are still in the learning phase (but might not quite reach the top).



Right, because hyperbolic fear mongering is the moral high-ground here?

Is your internal TomTom really that far out of whack that this is the road you are going to take?

There's nothing virtuous in disseminating ignorance. if being called out on nonsense immediately prompts this sort of childish response, it completely debases the purported advocacy of "progress" you allude to.

You provided some Greenpeace-esque opinion, I noted as much and simply countered it with facts. Where this goes from here is up to you, but my intention certainly wasn't for things to go in this direction

OK, whatever you say...

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Ws6
Until Tesla fixes their QA/QC, I don't care how cheap they get, or how fancy or fast off the line they are, I won't be buying one.


Or when you buy a luxury car, you expect it to have some decent luxuries. While autopilot is nice, it's still missing a bunch of other luxuries that other luxury car makers have, like massage seats...

 

[Alfred_B]

How is Model 3 a luxury car?

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Alfred_B
How is Model 3 a luxury car?

It's a luxury car in price, at least.