He doesn't use store brand oils cause they are "cheap"
Some things never change
Some things never change
Super Tech 0W20 ever
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Originally Posted By: zuluplus30
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You may beg as you wish.
I don't use ST in anything simply because it's a cheaply formulated oil, which is the reason that it lacks that most expensive and most desirable add, moly.
If one wants a cheap store brand oil, there are better and cheaper options from RK and Meijer and their oils actually do contain a small slug of moly.
I don't know anyone who actually uses ST. Not even Walmart uses it in their TLEs.
Valvoline/Napa VOAs show no moly either. What’s your point? Specs are specs. API SN and Dexos 1 fit my criteria just fine.
x2.
I use both NAPA syn and Synpower issue free. The NAPA I run at 10k OCI's.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You may beg as you wish.
I don't use ST in anything simply because it's a cheaply formulated oil, which is the reason that it lacks that most expensive and most desirable add, moly.
If one wants a cheap store brand oil, there are better and cheaper options from RK and Meijer and their oils actually do contain a small slug of moly.
I don't know anyone who actually uses ST. Not even Walmart uses it in their TLEs.
Valvoline/Napa VOAs show no moly either. What’s your point? Specs are specs. API SN and Dexos 1 fit my criteria just fine.
x2.
I use both NAPA syn and Synpower issue free. The NAPA I run at 10k OCI's.
Originally Posted By: zuluplus30
Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The average ST user probably doesn't drive anything new enough to need 0W-20 while the average more prosperous fellow driving something that calls for 0W-20 probably wouldn't use ST.
OTOH, there are house brand 0W-20s out there, so I'm sure that Walmart will join the party.
They're probably gathering bids from suppliers for this grade even now.
I beg your pardon
I know quite a few people with newer vehicles that use ST fluids.
Not everyone is stuck on using "name brand" oils anyways
Agreed. I use ST syn 5W20 in my 2015 Jeep Wrangler (still under warranty) and will use ST 0W20 syn in my 2017 Silverado (still under warranty) if I can ever find it. Grp III synthetic Dexos Gen 2 rated. $17.47 for 5 quarts. So far its the best bang for the buck oil I've ever used.
I am sure you are fine much like running non MS 6395 approved M1 in a Chrysler engine, but does your dealer know about this? For warranty work, some want oil change receipts and others don't..
Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The average ST user probably doesn't drive anything new enough to need 0W-20 while the average more prosperous fellow driving something that calls for 0W-20 probably wouldn't use ST.
OTOH, there are house brand 0W-20s out there, so I'm sure that Walmart will join the party.
They're probably gathering bids from suppliers for this grade even now.
I beg your pardon
I know quite a few people with newer vehicles that use ST fluids.
Not everyone is stuck on using "name brand" oils anyways
Agreed. I use ST syn 5W20 in my 2015 Jeep Wrangler (still under warranty) and will use ST 0W20 syn in my 2017 Silverado (still under warranty) if I can ever find it. Grp III synthetic Dexos Gen 2 rated. $17.47 for 5 quarts. So far its the best bang for the buck oil I've ever used.
I am sure you are fine much like running non MS 6395 approved M1 in a Chrysler engine, but does your dealer know about this? For warranty work, some want oil change receipts and others don't..
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
Some folks are just oil snobs.
They think because they pay more for namebrand oil that they are protecting their engine more.
Just ignore.
Well said
Some folks are just oil snobs.
They think because they pay more for namebrand oil that they are protecting their engine more.
Just ignore.
Well said
I actually can't imagine why they don't have a ST 0W20 out right now...
QSUD appears to have been squeezed off the shelves at my local WMs. They also pushed Bosch wiper blades out, unfortunately they didn't put any sizes of the Icon that worked for me on clearance...I can't remember the name of the brand that took Bosch's place, was a new one to me.
QSUD appears to have been squeezed off the shelves at my local WMs. They also pushed Bosch wiper blades out, unfortunately they didn't put any sizes of the Icon that worked for me on clearance...I can't remember the name of the brand that took Bosch's place, was a new one to me.
ST nothing is going in my vehicles ... I try to use the best oil I can at a good price point and not one that is formulated to meet the minimum standard requirements at as low a cost as possible. I realize that my standard is arbitrary to my interpretation, but my standards will not include ST. However I don't look down on those who choose to use a oil that does meet the minimum specification requirements. The house brand formulations that meet specifications are a good deal for a lot of people.
In my understanding a 5w20 will commonly have a pour point of -33C and a 0w20 can have a pout point of -36C. So in reality there is not much difference between the winter ratings of some 5w and 0w oils.
In my understanding a 5w20 will commonly have a pour point of -33C and a 0w20 can have a pout point of -36C. So in reality there is not much difference between the winter ratings of some 5w and 0w oils.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: zuluplus30
Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The average ST user probably doesn't drive anything new enough to need 0W-20 while the average more prosperous fellow driving something that calls for 0W-20 probably wouldn't use ST.
OTOH, there are house brand 0W-20s out there, so I'm sure that Walmart will join the party.
They're probably gathering bids from suppliers for this grade even now.
I beg your pardon
I know quite a few people with newer vehicles that use ST fluids.
Not everyone is stuck on using "name brand" oils anyways
Agreed. I use ST syn 5W20 in my 2015 Jeep Wrangler (still under warranty) and will use ST 0W20 syn in my 2017 Silverado (still under warranty) if I can ever find it. Grp III synthetic Dexos Gen 2 rated. $17.47 for 5 quarts. So far its the best bang for the buck oil I've ever used.
I am sure you are fine much like running non MS 6395 approved M1 in a Chrysler engine, but does your dealer know about this? For warranty work, some want oil change receipts and others don't..
ST 5w20 and 5w30 “meet requirements” of MS-6395. I can’t currently find the post but several years ago a forum member posted a PDS directly from Warren stating that it did indeed meet this requirement. I have it printed out and stashed in my vehicle file just in case.
Originally Posted By: zuluplus30
Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The average ST user probably doesn't drive anything new enough to need 0W-20 while the average more prosperous fellow driving something that calls for 0W-20 probably wouldn't use ST.
OTOH, there are house brand 0W-20s out there, so I'm sure that Walmart will join the party.
They're probably gathering bids from suppliers for this grade even now.
I beg your pardon
I know quite a few people with newer vehicles that use ST fluids.
Not everyone is stuck on using "name brand" oils anyways
Agreed. I use ST syn 5W20 in my 2015 Jeep Wrangler (still under warranty) and will use ST 0W20 syn in my 2017 Silverado (still under warranty) if I can ever find it. Grp III synthetic Dexos Gen 2 rated. $17.47 for 5 quarts. So far its the best bang for the buck oil I've ever used.
I am sure you are fine much like running non MS 6395 approved M1 in a Chrysler engine, but does your dealer know about this? For warranty work, some want oil change receipts and others don't..
ST 5w20 and 5w30 “meet requirements” of MS-6395. I can’t currently find the post but several years ago a forum member posted a PDS directly from Warren stating that it did indeed meet this requirement. I have it printed out and stashed in my vehicle file just in case.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The average ST user probably doesn't drive anything new enough to need 0W-20 while the average more prosperous fellow driving something that calls for 0W-20 probably wouldn't use ST.
OTOH, there are house brand 0W-20s out there, so I'm sure that Walmart will join the party.
They're probably gathering bids from suppliers for this grade even now.
I beg your pardon
I know quite a few people with newer vehicles that use ST fluids.
Not everyone is stuck on using "name brand" oils anyways
You may beg as you wish.
I don't use ST in anything simply because it's a cheaply formulated oil, which is the reason that it lacks that most expensive and most desirable add, moly.
If one wants a cheap store brand oil, there are better and cheaper options from RK and Meijer and their oils actually do contain a small slug of moly.
I don't know anyone who actually uses ST. Not even Walmart uses it in their TLEs.
I put it in a leased Nissan Sentra that I maintain. It can take conventional 5w-30 according to the owners manual. I can't justify putting the better clearance oils in it that I can use in my own stuff.
I also ran it in my brand new Ford Focus a few times. I see no issues with it.
My Subaru has to have 0w-20 and receipts while under warranty. As soon as I find it on the shelves, I'll put it in the Subaru too.
Originally Posted By: car51
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The average ST user probably doesn't drive anything new enough to need 0W-20 while the average more prosperous fellow driving something that calls for 0W-20 probably wouldn't use ST.
OTOH, there are house brand 0W-20s out there, so I'm sure that Walmart will join the party.
They're probably gathering bids from suppliers for this grade even now.
I beg your pardon
I know quite a few people with newer vehicles that use ST fluids.
Not everyone is stuck on using "name brand" oils anyways
You may beg as you wish.
I don't use ST in anything simply because it's a cheaply formulated oil, which is the reason that it lacks that most expensive and most desirable add, moly.
If one wants a cheap store brand oil, there are better and cheaper options from RK and Meijer and their oils actually do contain a small slug of moly.
I don't know anyone who actually uses ST. Not even Walmart uses it in their TLEs.
I put it in a leased Nissan Sentra that I maintain. It can take conventional 5w-30 according to the owners manual. I can't justify putting the better clearance oils in it that I can use in my own stuff.
I also ran it in my brand new Ford Focus a few times. I see no issues with it.
My Subaru has to have 0w-20 and receipts while under warranty. As soon as I find it on the shelves, I'll put it in the Subaru too.
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
ST nothing is going in my vehicles ... I try to use the best oil I can at a good price point and not one that is formulated to meet the minimum standard requirements at as low a cost as possible. I realize that my standard is arbitrary to my interpretation, but my standards will not include ST. However I don't look down on those who choose to use a oil that does meet the minimum specification requirements. The house brand formulations that meet specifications are a good deal for a lot of people.
In my understanding a 5w20 will commonly have a pour point of -33C and a 0w20 can have a pout point of -36C. So in reality there is not much difference between the winter ratings of some 5w and 0w oils.
A 0WXX is tested for pumpability at -40C and for cranking at -35C, while the temps for those tests using a 5WXX are -35C and -30C, respectively...the upper viscosity limits are similar for both grades at the different temps.
So, roughly speaking, there is a 5C/9F step in the testing between the two grades...if you're not going to get below -30C/-22F, it's likely that there's no advantage to using a 0W20 over a 5W20.
ST nothing is going in my vehicles ... I try to use the best oil I can at a good price point and not one that is formulated to meet the minimum standard requirements at as low a cost as possible. I realize that my standard is arbitrary to my interpretation, but my standards will not include ST. However I don't look down on those who choose to use a oil that does meet the minimum specification requirements. The house brand formulations that meet specifications are a good deal for a lot of people.
In my understanding a 5w20 will commonly have a pour point of -33C and a 0w20 can have a pout point of -36C. So in reality there is not much difference between the winter ratings of some 5w and 0w oils.
A 0WXX is tested for pumpability at -40C and for cranking at -35C, while the temps for those tests using a 5WXX are -35C and -30C, respectively...the upper viscosity limits are similar for both grades at the different temps.
So, roughly speaking, there is a 5C/9F step in the testing between the two grades...if you're not going to get below -30C/-22F, it's likely that there's no advantage to using a 0W20 over a 5W20.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I don't use ST in anything simply because it's a cheaply formulated oil, which is the reason that it lacks that most expensive and most desirable add, moly. If one wants a cheap store brand oil, there are better and cheaper options from RK and Meijer and their oils actually do contain a small slug of moly.
I don't know anyone who actually uses ST. Not even Walmart uses it in their TLEs.
SuperTech 5w30 full-syn uses moly... https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4623831/Supertech_5w-30_syn;_7k_mi;_20#Post4623831
You're saying SuperTech 0w20 doesn't use moly? Any VOAs or UOAs to say that?
I don't use ST in anything simply because it's a cheaply formulated oil, which is the reason that it lacks that most expensive and most desirable add, moly. If one wants a cheap store brand oil, there are better and cheaper options from RK and Meijer and their oils actually do contain a small slug of moly.
I don't know anyone who actually uses ST. Not even Walmart uses it in their TLEs.
SuperTech 5w30 full-syn uses moly... https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4623831/Supertech_5w-30_syn;_7k_mi;_20#Post4623831
You're saying SuperTech 0w20 doesn't use moly? Any VOAs or UOAs to say that?
0w20 Magnatec -39C pour point
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/10D164C1F907B12C80257FA10058AED3/$File/BPXE-9R7E8H.pdf
5w20 Magnatec pour point -36C
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/06267C60177C358380257FA2005E0F70/$File/BPXE-9R7F67.pdf
My mistake for saying -33 and -36 when it should have been -36C and -39C. The spread is the same though--3 degrees celsius.
I was not quoting the specs for the two different grades, but was saying what the difference "commonly is and used two common oils of the same brand to illustrate the point. 3 degrees Celsius whopee!
If you want a significantly lower pour point its not just getting a 0w oil, you need to look at the pour points. Now Mobil 1 EP 0w20 has a much lower pour point than a 5w oil, but hey that's a name brand oil.
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/10D164C1F907B12C80257FA10058AED3/$File/BPXE-9R7E8H.pdf
5w20 Magnatec pour point -36C
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/06267C60177C358380257FA2005E0F70/$File/BPXE-9R7F67.pdf
My mistake for saying -33 and -36 when it should have been -36C and -39C. The spread is the same though--3 degrees celsius.
I was not quoting the specs for the two different grades, but was saying what the difference "commonly is and used two common oils of the same brand to illustrate the point. 3 degrees Celsius whopee!
If you want a significantly lower pour point its not just getting a 0w oil, you need to look at the pour points. Now Mobil 1 EP 0w20 has a much lower pour point than a 5w oil, but hey that's a name brand oil.
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
0w20 Magnatec -39C pour point
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/10D164C1F907B12C80257FA10058AED3/$File/BPXE-9R7E8H.pdf
5w20 Magnatec pour point -36C
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/06267C60177C358380257FA2005E0F70/$File/BPXE-9R7F67.pdf
My mistake for saying -33 and -36 when it should have been -36C and -39C. The spread is the same though--3 degrees celsius.
I was not quoting the specs for the two different grades, but was saying what the difference "commonly is and used two common oils of the same brand to illustrate the point. 3 degrees Celsius whopee!
If you want a significantly lower pour point its not just getting a 0w oil, you need to look at the pour points. Now Mobil 1 EP 0w20 has a much lower pour point than a 5w oil, but hey that's a name brand oil.
Pour point is a poor choice for evaluating the cold performance of oil in an engine.
Unfortunately, few oil makers deign to share actual cold test performance results with us.
Amsoil claims a -47C pour point for its SS 10W30, but it still won't pass the 5WXX or 0WXX cold tests.
I guess it's possible it might give you a better chance of starting at -47C/-53F than Magnatec 0W20!
We've seen a few weird PDS here that claimed the pour point was a higher temperature than the temperature at which CCS is performed for the grade of the oil, I am incredibly suspicious of those (hopefully those were just typos).
0w20 Magnatec -39C pour point
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/10D164C1F907B12C80257FA10058AED3/$File/BPXE-9R7E8H.pdf
5w20 Magnatec pour point -36C
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/06267C60177C358380257FA2005E0F70/$File/BPXE-9R7F67.pdf
My mistake for saying -33 and -36 when it should have been -36C and -39C. The spread is the same though--3 degrees celsius.
I was not quoting the specs for the two different grades, but was saying what the difference "commonly is and used two common oils of the same brand to illustrate the point. 3 degrees Celsius whopee!
If you want a significantly lower pour point its not just getting a 0w oil, you need to look at the pour points. Now Mobil 1 EP 0w20 has a much lower pour point than a 5w oil, but hey that's a name brand oil.
Pour point is a poor choice for evaluating the cold performance of oil in an engine.
Unfortunately, few oil makers deign to share actual cold test performance results with us.
Amsoil claims a -47C pour point for its SS 10W30, but it still won't pass the 5WXX or 0WXX cold tests.
I guess it's possible it might give you a better chance of starting at -47C/-53F than Magnatec 0W20!
We've seen a few weird PDS here that claimed the pour point was a higher temperature than the temperature at which CCS is performed for the grade of the oil, I am incredibly suspicious of those (hopefully those were just typos).
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
According to the product data, the tests performed were per ASTM standards ... so whether those test are a good measure or not by someone's opinion, they are still industry standard tests for measuring cold weather characteristics.
The usefulness of an ASTM test is something that can change over time as new and better tests are developed. As someone who used to run a variety of ASTM tests in a previous job, those tests don't always accurately model or represent something that has an analog in the real world. Pour point tests were important years ago when that was all that was available but today better and much more representative cranking tests exist such as ASTM D5293.
ASTM tests are first and foremost standardized, and then after that representative. Pour point (much like flash point) is not a functional property of motor oil. It is quite possible to have a repeatable and well standardized test that has little or no usefulness in the real world. Pour point is not one of the "industry standard tests for measuring cold weather characteristics" of a motor oil, at least not for the end user.
According to the product data, the tests performed were per ASTM standards ... so whether those test are a good measure or not by someone's opinion, they are still industry standard tests for measuring cold weather characteristics.
The usefulness of an ASTM test is something that can change over time as new and better tests are developed. As someone who used to run a variety of ASTM tests in a previous job, those tests don't always accurately model or represent something that has an analog in the real world. Pour point tests were important years ago when that was all that was available but today better and much more representative cranking tests exist such as ASTM D5293.
ASTM tests are first and foremost standardized, and then after that representative. Pour point (much like flash point) is not a functional property of motor oil. It is quite possible to have a repeatable and well standardized test that has little or no usefulness in the real world. Pour point is not one of the "industry standard tests for measuring cold weather characteristics" of a motor oil, at least not for the end user.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Amsoil claims a -47C pour point for its SS 10W30, but it still won't pass the 5WXX or 0WXX cold tests.
That is an excellent illustration.
Amsoil claims a -47C pour point for its SS 10W30, but it still won't pass the 5WXX or 0WXX cold tests.
That is an excellent illustration.
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Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Amsoil claims a -47C pour point for its SS 10W30, but it still won't pass the 5WXX or 0WXX cold tests.
That is an excellent illustration.
That's an artifact of PAO. MRV may be ridiculously good but CCS will fail. A quick look at the PDS's for Mobil's SpectraSyn bases illustrates this quite well.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Amsoil claims a -47C pour point for its SS 10W30, but it still won't pass the 5WXX or 0WXX cold tests.
That is an excellent illustration.
That's an artifact of PAO. MRV may be ridiculously good but CCS will fail. A quick look at the PDS's for Mobil's SpectraSyn bases illustrates this quite well.
Originally Posted By: car51
Dam right!
Some "people" here are stuck on FAR, and other B.S. Oil deals
I'll take my $1/quart clearance stuff from AZ
ST OIL is fine for my "older" 2009 Camry anyways
I for one am stuck on FAR and similar oil deals.
These allow one to use quality oils that have complete add packs and good cold end numbers for a fraction of the cost of Walmart's store brand.
Wonder what the PAO content of ST might be? We already know what it is for M1 AFE or EP. How 'bout GTL basestock content? We already know what SOPUS uses in current PP formulations.
If one eschews MIRs and considers them "B.S.", then one can buy store brand oils from either Meijer or RK for less money than Walmart will part with ST for.
I noted this above.
As I asked above, if this stuff is such a wonderful oil at such a righteous price, then why doesn't even Walmart itself use it in their TLEs?
At the end of the day, ST doesn't seem to present much of a value proposition.
Those who think it does can certainly use it while the rest of us will spend the same or less coin on other brands.
Dam right!
Some "people" here are stuck on FAR, and other B.S. Oil deals
I'll take my $1/quart clearance stuff from AZ
ST OIL is fine for my "older" 2009 Camry anyways
I for one am stuck on FAR and similar oil deals.
These allow one to use quality oils that have complete add packs and good cold end numbers for a fraction of the cost of Walmart's store brand.
Wonder what the PAO content of ST might be? We already know what it is for M1 AFE or EP. How 'bout GTL basestock content? We already know what SOPUS uses in current PP formulations.
If one eschews MIRs and considers them "B.S.", then one can buy store brand oils from either Meijer or RK for less money than Walmart will part with ST for.
I noted this above.
As I asked above, if this stuff is such a wonderful oil at such a righteous price, then why doesn't even Walmart itself use it in their TLEs?
At the end of the day, ST doesn't seem to present much of a value proposition.
Those who think it does can certainly use it while the rest of us will spend the same or less coin on other brands.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
According to the product data, the tests performed were per ASTM standards ... so whether those test are a good measure or not by someone's opinion, they are still industry standard tests for measuring cold weather characteristics.
The usefulness of an ASTM test is something that can change over time as new and better tests are developed. As someone who used to run a variety of ASTM tests in a previous job, those tests don't always accurately model or represent something that has an analog in the real world. Pour point tests were important years ago when that was all that was available but today better and much more representative cranking tests exist such as ASTM D5293.
ASTM tests are first and foremost standardized, and then after that representative. Pour point (much like flash point) is not a functional property of motor oil. It is quite possible to have a repeatable and well standardized test that has little or no usefulness in the real world. Pour point is not one of the "industry standard tests for measuring cold weather characteristics" of a motor oil, at least not for the end user.
Yup the test isn't useful when it doesn't prove my point. It's so useless that its listed as product data because it has nothing to do with oil flowing in cold temps. Yup I'm convinced.
Originally Posted By: T-Stick
According to the product data, the tests performed were per ASTM standards ... so whether those test are a good measure or not by someone's opinion, they are still industry standard tests for measuring cold weather characteristics.
The usefulness of an ASTM test is something that can change over time as new and better tests are developed. As someone who used to run a variety of ASTM tests in a previous job, those tests don't always accurately model or represent something that has an analog in the real world. Pour point tests were important years ago when that was all that was available but today better and much more representative cranking tests exist such as ASTM D5293.
ASTM tests are first and foremost standardized, and then after that representative. Pour point (much like flash point) is not a functional property of motor oil. It is quite possible to have a repeatable and well standardized test that has little or no usefulness in the real world. Pour point is not one of the "industry standard tests for measuring cold weather characteristics" of a motor oil, at least not for the end user.
Yup the test isn't useful when it doesn't prove my point. It's so useless that its listed as product data because it has nothing to do with oil flowing in cold temps. Yup I'm convinced.
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