Originally Posted by hallstevenson
I checked the pumps at a half-dozen nearby stations that are supposed to be Top Tier (Marathon, Sunoco, and Shell, as I recall) and none had any indication of offering TT fuel. People here suggested that we (consumers) should just
trust that it really is TT fuel....
I've seen this noted elsewhere on this board. I swear i just read something about this on the Top Tier website in the past week (can't find it now), or maybe a third party site. I know the TT website used to say something to the effect that TT stations had to display the logo. Anyways, the statement I read was that the requirement to prominently display the top tier logo was added to the Top Tier agreements some time after the initial TT launch, and was not made retroactive. So earlier brands do not have to comply with the labeling requirement. Now, some of the brands you mentioned (Marathon, Sunoco-before they left) joined well after TT's launch in ~2004, so I don't what iteration of the agreement they were subject to, and it may in fact be a case of local stations not following their brand's directives. Shell, being among the earliest joiners of TT in 2004, it is likely they may not be subject to the requirement
TT's site now says:
"Many fueling stations selling TOP TIERâ„¢ licensed brands prominently display the TOP TIERâ„¢ logo on the pump, pump handle, canopy or in a station window."
https://toptiergas.com/how_do_you_know/
...which implicitly confirms that the displaying of the TT logo is not a requirement, if it is the case that only "many stations" display the logo. Also, putting a single logo in a window apparently suffices, which would be easy to miss even if looking
But as to the earlier point made in the thread, if some Sunoco stations are displaying a TT logo when they are not TT licensed, that is indeed a huge no-no, no only from TT's perspective (I assume it would be standard practice for TT's agreement to have some type of enforceable penalty for such action, as such display is degrading the TT brand), but also from a consumer deception standpoint (I'm sure the state attorney general, state consumer advocate, or TV consumer reporter would be interested)
Now, as to trusting you really are getting TT gas, of course, it's possible that local stations are trying to get away with not complying, but TT compliance is enforced by the gas brands, and like anything, it's the negative consequences that act as a deterrent to bad practices. Can you be 100% sure? I guess not. But it's as much assurance that is possible without testing the gas before use
Here's some Citgo stations that lost their Citgo branding and got hit with penalties from Citgo corporate for mixing non-TT gas with TT. Note this was in 2016 shortly after Citgo became TT. I recall at that time other stations which lost their Citgo branding, temporarily, shortly before the TT switch, as these stations had issues finding (or more likely reaching an agreement with) a supplier that met TT. It looks like these other stations in the link, which initially kept Citgo branding, tried to pull a fast one and were quickly caught via testing
https://www.gasbuddy.com/go/branded-gas-provider-cracking-down-on-quality-issues/
FWIW, this story also notes that testing of a brand's formula for TT accreditation costs $45,000. No mention of the annual cost of the license
To a point made elsewhere, I think, generally, most of the big-name brands (BP, Exxon), likely met TT prior to joining and didn't need to change formulas to get accredited as TT (Ford recommenced BP in their owners manuals prior to BP being TT). So you could say, in that respect, TT doesn't matter. However, aside from the general confirmation of detergent level that TT accreditation brings, what I think is most important is that, under the TT requirements, all stations under a brand must meet TT.
I think this brings real value in a world where, especially if a brand doesn't market a specific additive or formula (Techron), the brand of gasoline may be meaningless, and, for some brands, all the brand means is signage and perhaps marketing and loyalty support, and not a specific gasoline formula, and your local branded station is buying whatever they want (perhaps there is some minimum detergent level to run the brand, but who knows).
Not that I have specific evidence, but Citgo always seemed this way to me, prior to TT, and the experience above is consistent with it (if not dispositive). But in several parts of the county I am familiar with, Citgo was the most 'discount' of the major brands, and was one of the few, if not only, brand you would find being used by low volume, rural, 2 or 4 pump stations that lacked modern pumps, convenient store, or other amenities -- basically Citgo would still allow branding by Mom & Pop shops, when many of the big brands around here (Exxon, Shell, etc) went to exclusive or semi-exclusive agreements with certain 'jobbers' or middlemen, and would not directly supply small stations. My unproven speculation is that a brand like Citgo just provided branding and marketing support to these Mom&Pops, but allowed them to buy unbranded fuel from any supplier, that didn't need to meet any specific Citgo formula (until Citgo became TT, that is), which is why these small stations could support having a brand name and didn't have to meet some minimum purchase level that a jobber may require for a higher-tier brand. More to this point, Exxon used to be one of the brands with the top 3 most locations in my area. Around 2005, a lot of the smaller or 'independent' Exxon stations here lost their branding, some went to other brands, some closed, and the only remaining Exxons were all seemingly owned by the same operator (or operated under a supply, lease or similar agreement with the same jobber), I assume due to some jobber-type agreement (and the 2 Mobils we had switched to non-XOM brands). Of course, now there's a bunch more Exxons seemingly owned by different operators, and they've brought back Mobil into the area. It's always changing
Anyways, the Citgo gas you could get at say, 7-11 (back when most 7-11s had Citgo circa 2005 or so) could have been very different than the Cigo gas you got at the rural country store, even though they were both the same brand. TT provides an independent assurance (or as much as is possible, noting the behaviorabove), that no matter what Citgo station you now go to, it meets TT