Speeding ticket in CA, 82 mph in 65 zone (fwy)

[DaveInLA]

I was riding with my friend going on the freeway at around 9 pm tonight when he got pulled over for speeding. He was going a little faster than the rest of traffic, but lane changes were minimal and I don't think he was going so fast that he was a hazard. I'd say he was doing about 5-8 mph faster than everybody else.

Anyway, cop pulls him over and tells him that he was speeding. My friend, thinking that it's never a good idea to admit fault, acted surprised and said that he thought he was going along with the flow of traffic (which was sort of sparse tonight). He never gave the cop attitude. I stayed quiet the whole time. We didn't see the cop (dark), but he said that we passed him on the road because we were going significantly faster than he was (the cop said he was doing 65). Long story short, the cop gave him a ticket and said "I know you're going to contest this".

Yes, he was going a little fast, but you know how when you're driving along with the rest of traffic and you see one maniac just weaving through the lanes and blowing by everybody? That wasn't what was going on here. I told my buddy that he should contest this ticket, and he said he will. If he does have to pay, I said I'd chip in. He's freaked out because this is his first moving violation and until today, he had a perfect driving record.

What now? Should he even bother contesting this? If so, how does that work? I got a speeding ticket a little over a year ago, but I was clearly wrong (52 in 25 area) and was too busy to even bother going to court so I don't know how the process works. Does he have a shot at getting out of this fine? Will his insurance take a hit?

Thanks.

 

[PandaBear]

The flow of traffic crap never worked. A cop once told me on a newsgroup how he handle this "Did you ever go fishing? Did you ever catch all the fish in the ocean?"

Usually you can fight off speading ticket, at least you can pospone it until your first ticket got out of 1.5 years so your insurance won't get affected. What I have heard is the court is usually full and when that happen, they let go of the least serious ones.

82 in 65 zone is not that much faster, but it is going to be a close call. If he hasn't used radar, there is a way to argue. However, you have to put in a lot of effort and expect to show up in court for more than once (they always change the time last minute and you have to reappear again).

If time is tight and it is his first violation, then just going to traffic school may not be a bad choice.

How close does he live/work from the place he got caught?

 

[DaveInLA]

He lives about 15-20 miles away from where he got caught and about that distance to the court house.

I didn't know that the courts change the appointment dates like that... might change a few things.

Anyway, I briefly took a look at the ticket, and I believe it said "~82 mph" for his speed. The cop was driving solo, so I don't think he used a radar or anything like that to find an exact speed of my friend. I think he was pretty accurate, but will a ballpark estimate on his part hold up in court? Unless the cop's cruiser has a built-in radar detector, which I don't think it has, there's no way he could know for sure how fast my friend was going. All he said was that he was going at 65 and my friend quickly passed him (which I don't believe-- everybody was going faster than 65). Is this just "my word against yours"?

 

[Gary Allan]

I'm sure that he either used VASCAR+ or just clocked him with his certified speedometer for the required distance (.3mile in PA).

On contesting it ..he's toast. The judge will accept the word of the cop. You can only hope that he either can't attend (it will be postponed) or that his required certifications were out of date at the time of the traffic arrest. This has happened to me.

I was clocked 45 in a 35 zone. I had been doing 55 in a 45 zone ..but the cop waited until the speed zone change so he could write a bigger ticket. He had been clocking me for over a mile (his words about the distance he clocked me). I appealed it just in case I would get lucky. He showed ...but didn't bring the proper certification for the vehicle (mandated every 90 days). His vehicle was in full compliance ..he just pulled the wrong certification out of the file. I appealed to the judge that the officer had full oportunity to present the proper validation documentation and that I would object to a continuance based on his presentation being untimely. The judge agreed.

..but if he has all his ducks in a row ...forget it. In your friend's case, there's not much insentive to delay the assigning of points. If he was on the borderline for losing his license ..sure ..tie it up in appeals for 18 months ..meantime a few points come off of his license.


Determine what the officer based the arrest under:
VASCAR
Certified speedometer
whatever

Determine what check/cert/validation is done on these devices and how often they are performed by regulation.

At the hearing, be careful to integrate the date of the certification and assure that it is the one that would be valid at the time of the arrest. I had a ticket (a different hearing) where there was no certification performed on the unit at the time of the arrest. The officer presented the current certification. Since it wasn't for speeding (travelling at unsafe speed) ..the judge didn't require that the speedo be certified ..so I lost anyway, in spite of my objection.

..or just pay the fine and be done with it.

 

[ZeroDynamic]

If it a my word against yours..... you will lose. A cop always has more credibility than you.

What you need to do is to delay. Delay, delay, delay. Waive your right to a speedy trial. If a CHP busted you (freeway, so i assume) then chances are he'll show.

Let me tell you how I got out of a 108 mph ticket up here in NorCal.

I delayed for as long as possible. CHP tickets usually arrive 2-3 months later, then 1 month wait, then court. Plead not guilty, then waive your speedy trial. Get your trial like.. umm if you got busted in Feb, try to get it in April.

Why so long? It's state law that the officer has to remember the incident from memory. Chances are, he wrote something down in a little black book. So when you go to trial and he's there (always assume that he'll be there) he won't remember squat.

The whole point is to damage an officers credibility. If he can't remember s**t, and he just says you were speeding, object. The term is an incompetant witness. If the judge doesn't buy it, do other things to damage his credibility. What were you wearing? How many passengers? Where on the freeway were you pulled over? (like mile marker) What was the weather like? What about traffic? What were the exact words that came out of my mouth?

If that doesn't damage it enough, go onto the pacing, or radar. Would you be able to tell the difference between say, 65 mph and 75mph? Did you calibrate your radar before and after the stop? (4 other states require this) How long have you used a radar? Do you maintain it yourself?


The point is, you want a lot of, "I don't know" or "I can't recall" coming out of his mouth. It's an old salesman technique, where you use something bad, and if you see it over and over again, that bad something gets progressively worse. (I hope that made sense) So, if he says those things over and over, it will put lots of doubt in the judges mind.

Good Luck.

 

[DaveInLA]

Great info, thanks.

The court date the cop wrote on the ticket is in April (10th? 18th?... something like that). Does that mean the ticket will be sent before then? Should he bother delaying the court date beyond April? I remember when I got my ticket a while ago, the court date was a lot sooner than 2 months.

About discrediting the cop, how does one go about that? I mean, you can't just randomly question the validity of the cop in front of the judge, can you? "Your honor, the officer's memory of the matter is muddled. I bet he doesn't remember what I was wearing that day." Like that?

I wish I knew how the cop determined the speed. If he was just eyeballing it, why write down 82 instead of 80 or 85? I've never heard of VASCAR. And can an officer operate a speedometer/detector while driving his own vehicle?

 

[ZeroDynamic]

The ticket usually arrives before that, but if it doesn't.. that's the date.

You don't ask the judge the questions, you can cross-examine the cops testimony. So you ask the cop yourself.. You only talk to the judge if you have an "objection." If you do it randomly, it looks bad. Stay with revelant questions. All radar, then memory, then whatever else. Don't jump back and forth.

Basically, you can trap the cop too. (Cops have a head on their shoulders, but a lot of them aren't the brightest in the world)

For example,
"Officer ______ the ticket said you paced me at 82 mph. True?"
"Yes"
"Did that car have radar?"
The answer could go yes/no.. if it goes IDK, even better.
"Would you be able to tell me how long you have been pacing?"
This answer can depend.
"In all those years, have you ever been wrong?"
"Yes."
"How long were you pacing me?"
Depends, again.
"So, you weren't accurate in your pacing w/ the ~82mph, right?"
Yes.
"But if you aren't accurate 100% percent of the time, why not use the radar?"

Do something like that. I would also ask to see the certification of the radar gun, and the officers certification aswell. If that's out of date, you are in the clear.

Basically, ask questions that you know the answer to. Be polite as possible, don't be condesing, or a *******.. that will get a guilty verdict.

 

[Al]

Its a shame when one is guilty of speeding that all of have to pay for the side show. But then this is America.

I would just pay the ticket. And I have. Something about taking responsibility for my actions.

But that's just me.

 

[dkcase]

Many people would be willing to pay the fine and swallow the medicine, but what comes next is some insurance company exacting their own justice.

There's no evidence you are a less safe driver than you were the instant before the officer handed you a piece of paper, but you'll will continue paying the insurance "fine" for years..

 

[moribundman]

You're not alone, Al.

One time, the only time really, I got ever caught red-handed, or is that lead-footed?, well, pants down, figuratively speaking, on Highway 1, while flying right by him, I saw a cop ambushing me from behind some shrubs, radar gun in hand. The second I saw him pull out and come after me I pulled over even before he had a chance to catch up to me. He was very kind and the ticket was more than fair.

A few weeks ago I was going about 72 in a 65 zone, which is really at the lower end of the average speed here, when a black-and-white pulled up on my passenger side. The cop looked disapprovingly at me. I gave him a shrug and when I dropped to 65 he lost interest and went looking for better prey.

PS: Silver-colored Audis blend and are almost invisible to cops.

 

[outrun]

"Its a shame when one is guilty of speeding that all of have to pay for the side show. But then this is America.

I would just pay the ticket. And I have. Something about taking responsibility for my actions. But that's just me. "

No Al, I respectfully disagree. The issue is not rogue cops. Most are honest, they are just complying with order to bring in $$$$. However, Traffic enforcement has fallen afoul from the purety of justice. It is a form of revenue so traffic cops are defacto tax collectors armed with cuffs ready to go. Classical justice at its core is not about making money.

Some states like Delaware I feel have JUST FINES. In other words your not shafted 180$ or so for an illegal turn. The law does show sensitivity toward the people.

In Texas I feel the fines are DISPROPROTIONATE to the violation committed. Second the level of ENFORCEMENT is also DISPROPORTIONATE. Many fines are 2x-3x higher than other states. People who have rarely been ticketed elsewhere suddenly end up with many after coming here. Second, what makes you think I can shell out this funds at there very whim. To a small extent Europe has it correct,some fines are a miniscule joke to the affluent,its a massive chunk of there meager per capita income. Fines are adjusted to the individual. Of course in some cases that may mean thousands for speeding ... which is the unjust far spectrum of this ideology.

It is my duty to make it as difficult for them as possible by showing my civil disobedience to the matter. If it is really justice there should not be $$$$$$$$$$ involved. I am happy to backlog the courts, it is my form of karmic justice against the excessive citations issued to others. Henry David Thoreu, Jefferson, etc would be appalled to see the Municipal courts serving as a revenue center.

Educate me, suspend my license temporarily, mandate volunteer service etc, but do not REDUCE the COURTS to state revenue collection services. If these were the standard forms of penalty I would glady plea 'nolo contendere' everytime.

The courts are happy with people like you since you simply fire and forget (pay and have a nice day.)

 

[outrun]

*its a massive chunk of there meager per capita income.*

correction, i meant to poorer people fines would take too much from people with little on the other hand.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Around here, one can usually go 10 MPH over the spped limit without worry, 17 MPH is another story.

If your buddy wants to fight it, that's his right and I won't comment on a person accessing his rights under the law.

 

[yugrus]

Why not just obey the law by not speeding?.. I don't get it.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Rule of thumb for me. keep it less than 15 over unless traffic is clear, I know the road and I have no interference on the electronics CM's.

 

[michaelc80]

quote:

---

Well, you know the basic concepts of law, don't you. The society HAS to have laws to be sustainable. Many laws should not be flexible, and in this case 65mph is 65, not "10 over no problem".
Don't like it- vote against it. Disobeying LAW means anarchy. Is that what you're looking for? I came from society like that, and trust me; you don’t want to be part of it.

So say, drug abuse is not an abuse at all? Or take the tax brackets- are they so much flexible as you think speed limits are? Isn't there a parallel?

---

That is one of the best answers I've seen in a long time. Very well said.

 

[DaveInLA]

quote:

---

American highway velocity limits are
delibertaely underated.

---

No kidding.

It was 12 years ago when freeway speed limits were 55 mph, if I remember correctly. 68 back then would've gotten you a ticket. Now, 68 is safe. What changed? I understand the cops are just enforcing the laws, but a lot of what they're enforcing seems pretty arbitrary.

In this particular instance, my friend was going a little fast for his own good, passing cars and stuff, but I still maintain that he was in no way a danger to anybody at the time. Traffic was VERY manageable at the time.

I mentioned the only time I got a ticket was 52 in a 25 zone. This was a 2 lan road in a somewhat industrial area (warehouses and stuff). Few cars, WIDE open roads... the limit there has no business being only 25 mph. In fact, just 2 blocks from where I was tagged, the limit is 40 mph, and there's only one street separating the two zones. The road doesn't change, it doesn't narrow, there are no schools around, there's no indication that the speed limit is lower except for a sign posted on the side. I deserved that ticket that day, but the fact that I was going double the speed limit makes it sound like I was driving recklessly, and I wasn't. Not even close. When I was going back home on the other side of the street, I drove at 35 mph (10 above, supposedly safe), while EVERY car on the road was flying by me at 40-45 mph.

I guess it's just one of those things that we all have to deal with.

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

---

Some states like Delaware I feel have JUST FINES. In other words your not shafted 180$ or so for an illegal turn. The law does show sensitivity toward the people.

---

Ummm, yeah, not so... $175 for a turn on red (it was a yield sign a week before) at the rt 2 and 273 intersection in Newark, DE.

I appreciate the fact that the highway speed limites are deliberately underrated. Given the way that people maintain their cars only by the lowest bidder on everything (for the most part, there are us fanatics), and given how weveryone seems to think that theyre NASCAR pros... they run late, drive aggressively, dont pay attention, etc. Im glad the limits are low.

I dont go faster than 71 MPH. I could care less how many cops there are... I say let the budgetsbe balanced... Ive had it with idiots not knowing how to drive.

JMH

 

[brianl703]

Speeders are the low-hanging fruit and it doesn't take much effort to nail them.

There's a lot of other traffic laws that ought to be enforced too.

 

[AstroVic]

I'm literally stunned by this thread.

You're telling us that your friend is guilty of speeding - 17 MPH above the posted limit - but now you think he should be able to "get out of it" because, well, he wasn't really blowing anyone's doors off! Are you KIDDING me?!?!!?

Look, man, tell your friend to grow up and accept responsibility for what he's done, rather than always trying to find a way to worm out of things.

He's guilty and he got caught. Plain and simple. Accept it. Deal with it. Move on.