Sobering News for the Volt - Production Shutdown

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Originally Posted By: tig1
What would be the monthly cost to charge the Volt up assuming you ran the vehicle daily, say 30 miles? Also, how long does it take to charge it up?

That would be my question too Tig. I am not against new technology and more efficient "everything", but I am pondering...

According to the article the initial outlay is 33K and there are "...22 models for sale offering at least 40 MPG, a lot of buyers looking for fuel efficiency are content to buy a hybrid or gas powered car for well under $30,000."

I assume well under 30K to be at least 26K, thus a difference of 7K. At $5.00 per gallon of gas, 7K will net you 1400 gallons of gas and at 35 MPG, that is 50K miles of driving just to bring us up to the purchase price of the Volt (not including maintenance of course for the gas car).

What will it cost to drive the Volt for 50K miles and what would the price difference be at that point between the two cars?

Just thinking out loud here...
 
Originally Posted By: ryansride2017
I think many people are just intimidated by the technology. They would rather jump in a 40 mpg gas burner that costs thousands less. People can't get past the higher entry price with the hope of breaking even 5 or 10 years down the road. The majority in the population are not forward-thinking enough.


If you're making payments and didn't get 0% Financing from the dealer, you also have to consider the finance charge on that extra cost.

Also, the price of electricity will go up if everyone plugs their cars in. Then we will have shortages since the same groups who block drilling for oil also block coal and nuclear power plants. Wind power has its own environmental impact (birds and bats can be killed) and a lot of people have noise and aesthetic concerns, so some groups will try to block that. Solar has efficiency issues, mainly the fact that it isn't always sunny, so the energy has to be stored in huge banks of environmentally unfriendly batteries. Plus, these "green" technologies are expensive.

Also, if people move to electric cars (or any other alternative energy for that matter), the government will find a way to make up for the lost gas taxes. Keep that in mind as well.

Finally, the battery will die someday, and those are very expensive to replace.
 
Originally Posted By: Win

I guess that's a bad pun, considering the claimed fire hazard.


Actually the NHTSA gave the Volt a clean record concerning any potential fire issues just recently it was put through a gaunlet of tests when the fire issue came up, it passed all tests with flying colors.

THE POTENTIAL FOR SUCH FIRES WAS FOUND TO BE BASELESS.

You almost have to wonder if the car is being "set up" for failure by the oil companies.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

You almost have to wonder if the car is being "set up" for failure by the oil companies.


I don't think they'd waste their time fighting against something nobody ever wanted anyway.
 
Sure it doesn't use gas....but it does use electricity.....electricity still uses coal or other resource to produce :p


But yea, the car just isn't really feasible...I think I read it could only go 600 miles on one "charge"...? (Note: I believe it was slightly lower, but I can't remember the exact milage....and didn't want to lowball it and be cursed haha) So it's clearly not a "road tripper" - it's a "commuter" - but that's a big price tag for a "grocery getter".....nah I'll stick to the Geo Metro for that :p
 
Originally Posted By: jim302

... At the end of the day, cost was the real issue. >$30,000 is a lot of money for an economical car.



Are they marketing it as an economical car? I thought it was just being pushed as a mid size car that didn't use much gas.

It's certainly not economical in the sense an econobox is economical.
 
Chevy Volt Gas Savings: Myths and Reality





Submitted by Mark Modica on Mon, 02/27/2012 - 09:09

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There has been much written and said about the operating costs of the Chevy Volt. Proponents and critics have both been a bit deceptive on claims about just how much the Volt can save or cost you by mostly running on an electric charge before switching to gas. Snopes.com gives a fairly accurate picture of the true fuel savings in a recent analysis.

First, it is important to recognize that true operating cost consists of depreciation, insurance and maintenance as well as energy consumption. The high cost of the Volt puts it at an immediate disadvantage to conventionally powered vehicles. Even after federal and state tax giveaways, the vehicle costs about $15,000 more than comparable gas-powered cars. It is unlikely that the car will hold much of its value considering that improvements should be made in alternate vehicle technology (thus making the Volt obsolete within years) and the battery is expected to begin depleting well before year 8. Current cost estimates for battery replacement are about $8,000. The battery has an 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty so General Motors may be incurring the costs to replace batteries as owners approach year 8.

So, what can you actually save on gas costs for the Volt? According to Snopes, it cost an average of $1.70 in electricity cost to charge the car. That sounds reasonable. Snopes only gives the Volt an electric range of 25 miles, which seems like it is on the low end of estimates. I would guess the average range, under a variety of conditions, to be closer to 30 to 35 miles. Many small fuel efficient vehicles will get about that many miles per gallon, so you can essentially save a gallon of gas a day.

What has not been calculated by those discussing the gas savings for the Volt is the gas usage by the car even when in battery mode. GM and the media have been pretty quiet about the fact that, under certain conditions, the Volt will use gas during the initial battery phase. Probably not much, but some cost should be added for the additional gas usage. Also, the vehicle requires premium fuel which costs about 7 or 8 percent more than regular, another fact ignored by the media.

Disregarding the gas used in initial battery phase as well as the higher cost of premium fuel and using $3.70 a gallon for gas the simple math gives us a savings of about $2 a day. That is under pretty much optimal conditions. This is not fuzzy math, just a basic calculation that is easy to understand. How is it that proponents are claiming that so much can be saved by buying a Volt?

There have been many dubious claims circulated that hyped the potential for the Volt. Jay Leno, who owns about a hundred exotic cars, supposedly only drives a Chevy Volt and has gone at least 12,000 miles on a tank of gas. Highly unlikely. Crony corporation, General Electric, claims it is buying 12,000 Chevy Volts and forcing all employees to drive them so that they can save money. Really? Does anyone believe that GE is spending about $480 million to save $2 a day in gas for each vehicle? GE has also told employees that they can run the cars on gas only, further evidence that GE's decision to buy Volts is a blatant example of crony capitalism.

There are lots of other comments made by those who claim to own Volts who say they are saving so much money. I don't know what their motivations are, but anyone who wants to save $2 a day by spending an extra $15,000 does not have a very keen sense for investing.

Some commentators on the right have made misrepresentations as well, such as the Volt running out of charge in a tunnel, as if this caused the vehicle to be stuck. While this is not fair, the majority of reporting on the Volt by the mainstream media has been overwhelmingly positive with false claims of popularity and technological wonder regarding the car. How technologically advanced is a car that has a power source that takes 12 hours to charge only to have the capacity of one gallon of gas? And why are taxpayers footing the bill?

There is a perfect climate for deceit regarding GM and the Chevy Volt. President Obama has campaigned on the perceived success of the Volt and GM and the media seems to be intent on helping with his reelection bid. The blatant crony capitalism displayed by GE in buying thousands of Volts as elections approach and as they are rewarded by getting the contracts to sell charging stations is being ignored by the media. Also, GM spends billions of dollars a year marketing its vehicles and TV networks are major recipients. While some lesser viewed shows attempt to expose some of the corruption, prime time shows on major networks, some of which are otherwise fair and balanced, seem to be ignoring the crony capitalism story.

Time will tell if the media coverage on the Chevy Volt and other Government Motors' happenings will allow for a fair debate. Based on initial media criticisms of Republicans who objected to the UAW favored, contract law trampling GM bankruptcy process, odds are against it.

Mark Modica is an NLPC Associate Fellow.
 
Originally Posted By: Bob Woods
... Jay Leno, who owns about a hundred exotic cars, supposedly only drives a Chevy Volt and has gone at least 12,000 miles on a tank of gas. Highly unlikely.


????? The drive from my primary home to my office is about a mile. Almost any place I need to go, court building, bank, grocery store, etc., is within four miles of my office. If I want to go check on any of my properties, (one of them a c store / gas station, ironically) the majority of them are within a 25 mile radius. I can see someone not using the i/c engine much, and not using much gas, except when it needs to be purged.

I could charge it at the office ( put in a 220 volt line ) for fast charging, and the cost of electricity just gets absorbed into the office expense. The cost of the 220 volt line installation would go into the basis of the property and could be depreciated, and the car could be depreciated like I do my G8.

I'm flush with cars and don't need a new one, but it's not unreasonable that soembody could have one of these and use little to no gasoline. A Leaf wouldn't work for me, because our secondary home is 100 miles away across the Boston Mountains. But the Volt would.

The depreciation is a straw man, imo. All expensive cars depreciate fast. My '94 Jaguar with 76K miles is worthless. My '04 Jaguar is worth probably a third of what I paid for it in '04 with only 29K on the clock. That's just the nature of new cars - they're money black holes. I didn't perceive that it was being marketed to penny pinchers - it's clearly not that kind of a car.

If they would fire sale them like they did when they canned Pontiac, I could be tempted, and it would work for me.
 
Pessimists like this are the reason that the volt has done so poorly imo. Let's face it, we can't run gasoline cars forever, it's just not practical. Ideal situation would be semi-electric fuel cell cars. Think chevy volt with a fuel cell instead of a gasoline engine. Charge it at home for most of your commuting, fill it with hydrogen for longer trips. Electricity generated by Nuclear Power.

That is where I hope we eventually get.
 
Not so, many people are buying Prius(s). People are not being pessimistic.

Toyota sold more Prius(s) V in 10 weeks than Chevrolet sold Volt(s) in 2011.

Not to mention, the Volt costs much more than the Prius.

IMO: The Volt has a ton of plastic, which isn't expected with the high price tag.

They need to make the Volt more affordable. And, consumers need to see more data on how they will hold up. They haven't been around long enough.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
They are allegedly going to sell them down here as Holdens, at a predicted price of $58k Oz ($62kUS).

At $6US/gal, and 25.7cUS/KWhr, there's a LOT of capital to pay off, and if they become common, upward pressure on electricity prices is guaranteed.


Shannow, our electricity is a lot cheaper that that (as are our Holdens). I just got through writing the check for the electricty at our second house and it came to 11.4cUS/KWhr, inclusive of everything. Plants around here are fired by coal or natural gas, both of which we have out the wazoo, locally.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Shannow, our electricity is a lot cheaper that that (as are our Holdens). I just got through writing the check for the electricty at our second house and it came to 11.4cUS/KWhr, inclusive of everything. Plants around here are fired by coal or natural gas, both of which we have out the wazoo, locally.


Yeah, it's wildly annoying, as I work in generation, and know how much we get for what comes out the generator terminals, when we have to finance a couple $B of plant, operate and maintain it, buy 6M tonnes p.a. of coal, pay load based licence fees etc.

It's way less than 6.6c (including GST), and the privatised retailers are making a killing.

For my bill, add 66c (Oz) per day for the privilige of having a connection...so even if I used nothing, it's $270 US.

As to previous comments about tax, when people started using CNG in their cars, the Govt started taxing every joule that entered the place as though it went on transport...and they WILL do that with EVs eventually.
 
I've been saying for along time. the volt was too expensive. 40 Large for an electric car and a chevy? GM screwed the pooch on this one.
 
Considering the smear campaign being waged against the Volt in the media, it's hardly surprising. The "fire" thing was all over the media, and not a retraction to be heard when it was found out to be over-blown.
 
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