Royal Purple 5-30 w/No ILSAC (StarBurst symbol)

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My 2008 Lexus IS owners manual states 5/30 ILSAC rated oil should be used.

I would like to go with Royal Purple but they don't appear to be ILSAC rated anymore. I have found a site in the internet that carries RP 5/30 and the picture of the container has the starburst symbol. However, that same product is not the one I'm seeing in stores now.......the containers do not have the starburst symbol on the front.

Why did they lose their ILSAC rating?

Would anyone still use the RP regardless of that issue. I believe that this could cause possible warranty issues, if not entirely voiding the warranty.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions, please. Thanks.
 
Yes, they are on the API cert list, but are not ILSAC certified. You can be API certified without being ILSAC certified. Thus the reason for using two symbols - API (donut) on the back of the container, and the ILSAC (starburst) on the front of the container.

They didn't meet the new GF-4 standards to get ILSAC.

Very disapointing because I really wanted to use RP in my Lexus, but I'm not willing to risk voiding my warranty coverage. RP does offer it's own warranty, but that's not good enough for me.

I emailed RP, and got a couple replies back stating the they didn't agree with the new GF-4 standards. Below is the last email I received:

-------------------------
Email from RP -

Thanks for the feedback.
That's a choice open to you if you choose to go with the SM rated oils with the reduced ZDDP of 800 ppm developed to theoretically prolong the life of the exhaust system catalyst. There are plenty of options for you in the market place for the 'me too' SM level of performance.
If you desire the increase in performance that Royal Purple's product provide - hopefully you'll reconsider your position - at Royal Purple we have not had any issues with damaged catalysts in street driven vehicles even using our XPR series of oils over 150,000 miles of street use being checked annually on IMI 240 emissions machines. These XPR oils contain 225-250% greater amounts of ZDDP additive than the 800 ppm maximum cap of the SM oils.

The RP additive technology Synerlec helps increase the seal of the piston rings to cylinder bore reducing oil additive carryover in the exhaust.

It's important to note that the SM rated oils still contain the phosphorus component which is thought to plate out on the catalyst surface defeating the conversion of combustion byproducts to less harmful gases. The government did not perform extensive testing - it was just a mandate / compromise with the automaker's when the EPA demanded longer warranty coverage for the functionality of the system and the big three claimed it would drive them into bankruptcy. Recent research indicates that it's not the amount of additive in the oils but the amount of the additive package that volatizes off. Not all ZDDP packages are created equal.

We've offered a corporate warranty for the use of our API SL - GF-3 rated oils if used in a vehicle where an SM - GF-4 rated oils is recommended for three years now. I have yet to receive the first inquiry or claim of any voided warranty repair due to the use of the RP oil in the three years this has been in effect The RP API SL rated oils exceed the energy fuel savings required of GF-4 rated products.
Royal Purple is at least up front and straight forward with this. I can point out several lubricants that claim ratings and warranty approvals that do not - although that would not be apparent by reading the literature specifications....

Many of our long time users will even run the XPR series of oils in street cars with warranty for even more performance and have not had a plugged catalyst in a stock 300C, Camaro's, Suburban's, etc.

Unfortunately, if dotting i's and t's for warranty is more important than increased wear protection and improved performance - we may not be able to dot and cross all those letters. We also do not offer a 'me too' atf for the GM Dexron VI, Ford Mercon V or Chrysler ATF+4 but that has not slowed down the use of our RP MaxATF in warranty applications.

Thanks fro the feedback and hope that you reconsider.

Sincerely,

Name Removed
Tech Services Manager
BSME


Royal Purple Inc
 
I have asked Royal Purple this. The answer I got was along the lines of this: we did not want to meet the new spec. To meet the newer specs, we would have to downgrade our oil.


I have used it in the past. Nothing "bad" about the oil.
 
I agree there's nothing bad about the oil.

It's the Lexus warranty issue that has me over a barrel. They specifically say that the 5/30 is "recommended", but the ILSAC is "required". There is no gray area there!
 
Originally Posted By: DHjr
My 2008 Lexus IS owners manual states 5/30 ILSAC rated oil should be used.


Not to nit pick, but what exactly does the manual say?

I highly doubt RP will cause any actual problems. Trust me, I know the dilemma.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: DHjr
My 2008 Lexus IS owners manual states 5/30 ILSAC rated oil should be used.


Not to nit pick, but what exactly does the manual say?

I highly doubt RP will cause any actual problems. Trust me, I know the dilemma.



Directly above your post is what the manual states.
 
This is a big issue for those of us who are loyal RP guys but who run new vehicles with warranties to worry about. I know RP has a supplemental warranty, and I truly believe they are an honorable company( unlike so many other oil companies out there ), that would stand behind it. I just don't like screwing around with my factory warranty. I am really torn about using RP in my new 08 5.7L HEMI Ram that calls for the API Starburst. AS the OP mentions RP used to have it but no longer does. I "KNOW" the SL rated RP will do no harm and that there is nothing super special about API SM. SL just doesn't meet warranty requirements anymore as a rule.

While I understand RP's point about not wanting to degrade their product from API SL to meet SM spec's they also have to understand that it is a changing world out there and you either keep up or fall behind and lose customers. Both old customers such as myself and potential new ones like the OP. The world has moved past SL and they need to do the same or their only market share will be older vehicles. 99.9% of people will not believe in that supplemental warranty.

If RP truly believes that reforumulating to meet SM will so degrade their product why not offer 2 lines? Keep the SL formula they like so well as their "Original Formula" and then come out with a new line that is reformulated to meet the current API service level classifications as they change. That new formula could be reformulated as needed when a new API service level comes out. They could call it soemthing else to show it is what to use in newer vehicles under warranty. That way they offer something for everyone.

RP will really be behind the ball next year when API SN comes out. Now their oil is 2 API service levels down. As much as I like that company and the products they produce I am really disappointed in their inflexibility and how long it takes them to make ANY change to a product.

I do realize that change for the sake of change is not always a good thing( political comment deleted )but by the same token refusing to EVER change is not so great either. It is nice to say our product is the best but when people stop using it because the technology is so old what good is having the best doing you? Either reformulate the current oil as needed or offer 2 lines. One or the other. To refuse to make any changes and sit pat is foolish.

I don't see how they can expect to stay at API SL much longer unless they have decided to forsake the new car market altogether?
 
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Well said NHHEMI.

My latest email reply from RP. I think the bold part below sums up nicely their thoughts on latest auto specs...

As to his question about how the Lexus dealer would know; because I take it to them for service and supply the oil.



--------------------
DHjr,

We fully understand -and if you would call and ask these questions on our toll free line - 888-382-6300, you would find that we do respect OEM and extended warranties and do caution people about unnecessarily voiding a warranty - particularly on automatic transmissions, etc.
Royal Purple is a high performance manufacturer, and to be forced to offer a lower performance 'me too' warranty product is not what we are about. That's what the major oil companies do.
Our experience is that the newer API SM light weight oils are not proving to offer the same level of engine protection as compared to older service classification oils is not the direction that we, as a company, plan to go.
We are continuing to work and strive to offer the highest performing oils that we can.
But we also realize that we can not be all things to all people.

We do offer 0W40 and 5W40 oils that meet API SM as well as ACEA European specs.

The CEO of RP replaced his Chrysler 300 LHS with a really fine LS460. It's got that 8 speed automatic and the automatic parking feature. What a nice engineered vehicle. He's running the RP 5W20 in it with great results.

DHjr -I'm curious as to how would the Lexus dealer know that if a non Starburst labeled oil was used unless you told them?
If there was a problem caused directly by the failure of the RP oil - as a manufacturer in the US our liability insurance would cover a failure of our product.
We have not had to use that in the 16+ years that I have been with our company.

To answer your question regarding our racing series of oils.
The XPR series of oils are built to our Chief Formulator's proprietary recipe - and fall outside of the restrictions placed on API / ILSAC formulations - so no - they are not licensed and have no plans to be run through the 7 figure testing as they are intended for people looking for the highest performance in oils - not those looking to dot i's and t's for warranty requirements.
 
I have thought of going to RP. I think when I make the switch to full synthetics I will go to Schaeffer's, only because I did alot of research and found a NAPA close to work that carries it at or a little bit cheaper than RP, and it seems to be REALLY great stuff.

That being said I know one couple, 18 month old baby boy, married about 2 years, and totally broke. He has a Ford Escape that his parents bought him new, and he has run 7500 mile OCI's and RP since the first oil change, I don't know the viscosity that he is using, but we have had talks about full synthetics. The distances that they drive, and in the heat of North Texas, if something was wrong with this oil it would have shown up.

That being said, all the cars I own are out of warranty. I think most people's cars are out of warrenty, and I am sure RP is a excellent product. Have I torn down engines? Or have a degree in this stuff? Nope, but then again all I do is hang around these forums. I believe it is dancing banana time!
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Lexus saying it "should be" used is different than "requiring" it. They can't get you on warranty unless they require it.

Plus how many people out there but us oil freaks know what GF-4, ISLAC, API and all that stuff means? Heck most of the general public go to Quick Oil change places and have no idea what they are getting and they don't really care.

Many people feel the SM rating and reducing ZDDP does reduce protection. Being RP kind of bills itself as a high performanmce racing type oil they would want to keep that.

They could care less about what car manufacturers and the general public think about it as the manufacturers will never recommend their oil and the general public is clueless.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Lexus saying it "should be" used is different than "requiring" it. They can't get you on warranty unless they require it.

Plus how many people out there but us oil freaks know what GF-4, ISLAC, API and all that stuff means? Heck most of the general public go to Quick Oil change places and have no idea what they are getting and they don't really care.

Many people feel the SM rating and reducing ZDDP does reduce protection. Being RP kind of bills itself as a high performanmce racing type oil they would want to keep that.

They could care less about what car manufacturers and the general public think about it as the manufacturers will never recommend their oil and the general public is clueless.



And further down in the thread I quoted exactly what Lexus states..............nothing about "should be".

It's the Lexus warranty issue that has me over a barrel. They specifically say that the 5/30 is "recommended", but the ILSAC is "required". There is no gray area there!
 
I think your real risk to shorten cat. life. As I understand the mfg's were mandated 100K miles as guarantee and they said ZDDP needs to be reduced.

My assessment is ZDDP at 800ppm (SM level)is not an issue including my 1985 Porsche 911. I have put on 20K miles using SM.
 
Originally Posted By: DHjr
My 2008 Lexus IS owners manual states 5/30 ILSAC rated oil should be used.


Sorry, I got hung up on this one you posted not the later one.
 
I guess you have to do what you have to do.

But how many engine failures do you really see due to oil related failures? Especially if you used Syn Oil. Almost None?

It is bad maintenance issues. They would be more concerned about how often you changed the oil then what you used I bet.

Plus how long do you plan on owning the car? A few years? Forever?
 
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I looked at a Saturn with 200,000 miles on it that burned 1qt/1000 miles since new using SL/SM oil, and it had recently passed the emissions test on the original cat.
 
Originally Posted By: glenncof
I think your real risk to shorten cat. life. As I understand the mfg's were mandated 100K miles as guarantee and they said ZDDP needs to be reduced.

My assessment is ZDDP at 800ppm (SM level)is not an issue including my 1985 Porsche 911. I have put on 20K miles using SM.


Not sure what to make of this........."SM" is ILSAC spec oil.

RP 5/30 is "SL" rated......NOT ILSAC spec. "SL" rated is 1100ppm.
 
The newest SM spec lowered the ZDDP amounts in an effort to lenghten emission(catalytic convertor life)as stated earlier. Many including RP think it weakened the oils protective properties a little as well. So some companies/users might choose not to conform/run SM as they want what they feel is better protection at the possible chance at shorter Cat life cycle.
 
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Something to consider:

"Oil companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives and switching to alternative zinc-free (ZF) additives and ash-less dispersants in their new low SAPS oils since Zn, P, and sulfated ash have been found to be bad for catalytic converters. One such ZF dispersant/anti-wear additive is boron, which does not foul the catalysts in the particulate emissions filters or catalytic converters. For most owners, the reduction in longevity of a catalytic converter is a small price to pay considering the many thousands of dollars it costs to properly rebuild a Porsche engine.It is worth noting that most Porsches have lived the majority of their lives with high Zn and P oils as found in API SG-SJ oils as late as 2004, and we never hear of problems with their catalytic converters."


The rest--> http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
 
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