OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Well magazines like that easy to modify shouldn't be sold here...
But they are, and the reason it hasn't be redacted likely has to do with my answer to your question:
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Has even that simple modification happened though?
I'm sure it has, but not for the purpose of committing a mass killing that at least I'm aware of. I assume part of this is due to the fact that the guns that these mags are available for aren't generally the ones used. I can think of one exception and that's the Mini-14 used in the Quebec Poly incident, which has a 20rd mag available for it, but pinned to 5. Not sure if that mag existed back then though, and it wasn't used in that case.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
The guys doing the mass shootings obviously don't have the clearest of minds.
No, and most of them don't use legally obtained firearms either. Just like the guys plowing vans and straight trucks into crowds of people.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Also what purpose do large magazines for rifles have for the general public? How many non-criminal citizen get into a protracted gun battle in their own homes where it would makes sense to shoot 30 rifle rounds, and quickly reload to shoot more? I'm sure most people competently trained in home defense, choose a handgun and try to fire the minimum number needed.
Astro gave you his take above. I'd personally use a 12-gauge in that scenario, as I wouldn't feel comfortable discharging a rifle inside a dwelling as you don't know where outside the dwelling the projectile is going to land, particularly in an urban environment. For somebody more rural, it perhaps makes more sense.
Large magazines serve the same purpose outside of a potential family protection scenario as those huge bench-rest rifles for long range competitions: enjoyment/hobby time at the range.
No different than the barrel mags for various .22 calibre rifles or owning something like a .50BMG which is arguably too large for hunting anything worth eating in North America.
If everything was about practical suitability I wouldn't have a 475HP V8 either, and nobody would have high powered fishing boats because you can catch your limit in a tinner with a 9.9 on it.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think a simple statistical and tactical analysis would show that having large capacity rifle magazines available to the public is a net loss in terms of lives saved. Probably dozens of losses per save.
And what about the events perpetrated by hand guns then? Shotguns? We aren't seeing guys with tube-extension Remmy 800's shooting up places in Canada here, despite them been non-restricted, inexpensive and with highly available ammo. Justin Bourque managed to mow down numerous armed police officers with a 5-round limited Chinese AR-10 clone. That protracted event would have played out the same regardless of mag limits.
I'm somewhat neutral on the whole mag limit issue, as I don't think it is a significant player in most cases. Why people are doing it and how they are obtaining weapons should be the primary focus, and it seems in many of these instances the primary failing is with the FBI and law enforcement. If the system already isn't working, adding more regulation to it isn't going to make it better.
Yes, the situation that unfolded at that concert was horrific. But the guy could also have just driven into that crowd with a Penske rental and done just as much damage. So in a specific case where the lack of availability (not to be confused with regulation on) of high capacity magazines MIGHT have been beneficial, the method could just have easily have been changed.
So basically, I'm not sold on mag capacity limits being a key to the solution here. I think it is low-hanging fruit and does nothing to deal with the root of the problem.
Well magazines like that easy to modify shouldn't be sold here...
But they are, and the reason it hasn't be redacted likely has to do with my answer to your question:
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Has even that simple modification happened though?
I'm sure it has, but not for the purpose of committing a mass killing that at least I'm aware of. I assume part of this is due to the fact that the guns that these mags are available for aren't generally the ones used. I can think of one exception and that's the Mini-14 used in the Quebec Poly incident, which has a 20rd mag available for it, but pinned to 5. Not sure if that mag existed back then though, and it wasn't used in that case.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
The guys doing the mass shootings obviously don't have the clearest of minds.
No, and most of them don't use legally obtained firearms either. Just like the guys plowing vans and straight trucks into crowds of people.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Also what purpose do large magazines for rifles have for the general public? How many non-criminal citizen get into a protracted gun battle in their own homes where it would makes sense to shoot 30 rifle rounds, and quickly reload to shoot more? I'm sure most people competently trained in home defense, choose a handgun and try to fire the minimum number needed.
Astro gave you his take above. I'd personally use a 12-gauge in that scenario, as I wouldn't feel comfortable discharging a rifle inside a dwelling as you don't know where outside the dwelling the projectile is going to land, particularly in an urban environment. For somebody more rural, it perhaps makes more sense.
Large magazines serve the same purpose outside of a potential family protection scenario as those huge bench-rest rifles for long range competitions: enjoyment/hobby time at the range.
No different than the barrel mags for various .22 calibre rifles or owning something like a .50BMG which is arguably too large for hunting anything worth eating in North America.
If everything was about practical suitability I wouldn't have a 475HP V8 either, and nobody would have high powered fishing boats because you can catch your limit in a tinner with a 9.9 on it.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think a simple statistical and tactical analysis would show that having large capacity rifle magazines available to the public is a net loss in terms of lives saved. Probably dozens of losses per save.
And what about the events perpetrated by hand guns then? Shotguns? We aren't seeing guys with tube-extension Remmy 800's shooting up places in Canada here, despite them been non-restricted, inexpensive and with highly available ammo. Justin Bourque managed to mow down numerous armed police officers with a 5-round limited Chinese AR-10 clone. That protracted event would have played out the same regardless of mag limits.
I'm somewhat neutral on the whole mag limit issue, as I don't think it is a significant player in most cases. Why people are doing it and how they are obtaining weapons should be the primary focus, and it seems in many of these instances the primary failing is with the FBI and law enforcement. If the system already isn't working, adding more regulation to it isn't going to make it better.
Yes, the situation that unfolded at that concert was horrific. But the guy could also have just driven into that crowd with a Penske rental and done just as much damage. So in a specific case where the lack of availability (not to be confused with regulation on) of high capacity magazines MIGHT have been beneficial, the method could just have easily have been changed.
So basically, I'm not sold on mag capacity limits being a key to the solution here. I think it is low-hanging fruit and does nothing to deal with the root of the problem.
