Rethinking gun control/types of purchases

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I guess one way would be to x-ray/metal detectors machines at schools one entrance only and all students and faculty have to pass through each day like they use at courthouses and such... its a thought..


It's a start. Then hire retired Military or LE and arm them to monitor the entrance and exit of the building.

 

[SZR48207]

I think the answer can be found in a book called "Tribe" by Sebastian Junger.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I guess one way would be to x-ray/metal detectors machines at schools one entrance only and all students and faculty have to pass through each day like they use at courthouses and such... its a thought..


It's a start. Then hire retired Military or LE and arm them to monitor the entrance and exit of the building.


To play devils advocate: wouldn't that make them the first target? After that, they could rush the building.

It may deter, but in this case, I'd have to think the shooter could easily have mitigated this obstacle. I'd think it'd only deter those who had a specific target.

*

I haven't figured out how this kid could manage to buy an AR. [Yes I know he was of age.] I guess it's less than a car. But was he helped by those who should have known better? I mean, it seems most kids have problems saving enough money for gas--let alone an AR & ammo to feed it.

 

[28oz]

I think the problem is multi-faceted, but mostly cultural and related to the breakdown and public disdain and mockery of the nuclear family. Read this article this morning, and I think it makes a very good point.

https://selfgovern.com/7486-2/

Banning inanimate objects and creating more laws that don't affect criminals aren't the answer.

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
How many more events like this before people start seeing a pattern and not be considered a conspiracy nut case? Probably never.


Sadly , you are probably correct . Even if the media would quit " glamorizing " these incidents , I think it would help . All this hype can not have a positive influence on at least some of the unstable part of our population .

They may not be a pert of a conspiracy , but they are being driven by the lure od commercial revenue and face time . And perhaps being used as a tool by the people " behind the curtain " .

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Why is the media not going ballistic , every day about the number of people injured and killed , each day by people under the influence of drugs and / or alcohol ? Why are the talking heads and politicians not burning up the air waves ?

Because , all those folks are not interested in saving life and limb . They have other agendas .

The media / talking heads are interested in selling commercial time and face time .

The less despicable politicians are interested whipping up votes and maybe campaign funding . The truly despicable politicians probably have that agenda , to . But I fear , a hidden agenda of people control !

If you look through history , the average person is in most danger , not from crazies with guns . We / they are most at risk from crazies that constitute governments .

How many did Hitler kill ? I read 6,000,000 Jews and other assorted groups . Stalin , I read anywhere from 10,000,000 to 20,000,000 RUSSIANS !

No telling how many Chairman Mao . Pol Pot is said to have killed 1,000,000 Cambodians out of a total population of 6,000,000 .

A better history student than I could probably go back to Cain and Able .

That is the reason the founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment into the bill of rights . You can say , it has never happened here , it can never happen here . Maybe that is precisely why it has never happened here ?

Never , never , never give a politician the benefit of the doubt . Or the henchmen working for him . Neither with money , nor with power and certainly not with your rights / life . And the lives and future of your children and grandchildren .

Remember , 99% of politicians , if they were reputable and to be trusted , they would have a job in the " real world " . I do not trust big government , big business or big labor .

Remember , trust is just about the most valuable thing you can give some one or some institution .


x2. Thank you.


Welcome

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Why is the media not going ballistic , every day about the number of people injured and killed , each day by people under the influence of drugs and / or alcohol ? Why are the talking heads and politicians not burning up the air waves ?

Because , all those folks are not interested in saving life and limb . They have other agendas .


While the latter may be true, the former is about schools, a place where people go to learn about the world: presumably a pretty safe place to be.

A shootout between gangbangers down in the ghetto doesn't get that much attention, by contrast.


How about rethinking the whole gun free zone ? Allow any adult with a legal concealed carry license , do so . Not saying it would be 100% effective , but I think it would help . At the very least , reduce the body count .

As far as the killings by gangbangers ( especially the collateral damage suffered by the bystanders ) , the media really do not care , the politicians really do not care .

Look at the statistics for the murders in Chicago and surrounding area . I read it has some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation ? Has it worked ?

Allow the population to defend their selves . And un-elect the politicians that continue to promote failed policies / laws .

Remember politicians and dipers should be changed frequently . For the same reason .

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I guess one way would be to x-ray/metal detectors machines at schools one entrance only and all students and faculty have to pass through each day like they use at courthouses and such... its a thought..


It's a start. Then hire retired Military or LE and arm them to monitor the entrance and exit of the building.


To play devils advocate: wouldn't that make them the first target? After that, they could rush the building.

It may deter, but in this case, I'd have to think the shooter could easily have mitigated this obstacle. I'd think it'd only deter those who had a specific target.

*

I haven't figured out how this kid could manage to buy an AR. [Yes I know he was of age.] I guess it's less than a car. But was he helped by those who should have known better? I mean, it seems most kids have problems saving enough money for gas--let alone an AR & ammo to feed it.

I guess that would depend on how the entry to the building is set up. I don't think it would be all that difficult to protect the guard with a double set of bullet proof doors and a metal detector in the middle of them. Students might have to plan on getting out a bed a few minutes earlier during school days to pass through security.

 

[mbacfp]

The fact that nothing else is ever seriously discussed other than Gun Control during these events makes me suspicious. Gun control gets pushed then goes away until the next one, etc., etc. After Vegas, next day there was bump stock banning legislation...wow, really? Banning bump stocks is the answer. Crazy irrational times we are/have been living in. I have kids in school, so I wish something more constructive would jump to the top of mainstream discussion. Very sad.

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: Brian553
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
The guns aren't the issue, the issue is hateful people having them and using them to kill people.

How do you prevent hateful persons from accessing guns?

Maybe improve the atmosphere of hate, hopelessness and disdain.


I have to agree with you on this.

Why is it that after a teen suicide, committed by a mentally ill young person, we examine all the aspects of their social situation, their family, school and their mental health, to look for ways to prevent that tragedy from happening again?

But after a school shooting, committed by a mentally ill young person, we skip all that and say, "it's the guns!!"

When both tragedies (and they are both tragic events) have the same root cause?

Yep .

 

[andyd]

I'm gonna try like the dickens to keep this thread going. This is hearsay. The guns were in a locked case. The "adult" in the situation "thought" he had the "only" key. Is this true? I don't know gun cases, but most locks come with 2 keys.

I get the 2nd amendment. Just not going there. Gun guys, why do you own assault rifles? Because they are neat and go bang. You ought to see what they can do to a watermelon! Kinda like fireworks? I was more into blowing up stuff and molotov cocktails. Can you hunt deer or birds with it? Coyotes? Home defense? Against whom? Them, whoever them are. Whatever. WE just have to get way better at keeping guns away from whackjobs. Secure your weapons (toys). Teens want to blow stuff up ? Join the army and get taught by experts. They will put your teen age angst to good purpose.

You know what the scary thing is? School shootings no longer stir me like they used to. I wept when I heard about Sandyhook. Now, I change the channel.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: supton
I don't think I've heard of the min age (of 21) being mentioned as a possibility in years past. That might have some premise, seeing how alcohol is treated that way. Wouldn't have deterred Sandy Hook nor Vegas though.
The voting age was lowered to 18 because that was the age of the draft at the time. I would agree to raise the age of voting, the minimal age of entry to the military etc, to 25 when the average brain has fully matured.

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I guess one way would be to x-ray/metal detectors machines at schools one entrance only and all students and faculty have to pass through each day like they use at courthouses and such... its a thought..


It's a start. Then hire retired Military or LE and arm them to monitor the entrance and exit of the building.


Not a bad idea .

But sadly , I think a lot of it is no one is parenting so many of these kids . No one is teaching them right and wrong . No one is teaching them how to be responsible / productive / decent people .

Add to that rampant political correctness .

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I think the answer can be found in a book called "Tribe" by Sebastian Junger.



Have never read it , may be a fine book .

May I suggest a far older book written by a bunch of Jews , culminating with the words of a Jewish carpenter & his followers , around 2000 years ago .

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I guess one way would be to x-ray/metal detectors machines at schools one entrance only and all students and faculty have to pass through each day like they use at courthouses and such... its a thought..


It's a start. Then hire retired Military or LE and arm them to monitor the entrance and exit of the building.


To play devils advocate: wouldn't that make them the first target? After that, they could rush the building.

It may deter, but in this case, I'd have to think the shooter could easily have mitigated this obstacle. I'd think it'd only deter those who had a specific target.


How much does the electronics possessed by the " average " kid cost ? Smart phones , music , video games ?

And if he / she happens to be doing drugs ? How much does that cost ?

As far as retires military / LEO's being a target . Perhaps so , but that is / was true before they retired . And we are not talking about just one . Add in staff with concealed carry licenses .

*

I haven't figured out how this kid could manage to buy an AR. [Yes I know he was of age.] I guess it's less than a car. But was he helped by those who should have known better? I mean, it seems most kids have problems saving enough money for gas--let alone an AR & ammo to feed it.

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: 28oz
I think the problem is multi-faceted, but mostly cultural and related to the breakdown and public disdain and mockery of the nuclear family. Read this article this morning, and I think it makes a very good point.

https://selfgovern.com/7486-2/

Banning inanimate objects and creating more laws that don't affect criminals aren't the answer.


You are not far from the truth .

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
How about rethinking the whole gun free zone ? Allow any adult with a legal concealed carry license , do so . Not saying it would be 100% effective , but I think it would help . At the very least , reduce the body count .



Good guy with a gun can and has been known to work, but I'm not sure that a dedicated shooter would care. The odds are low: IIRC only 10% of the population has a CCW, and maybe half care with any regularity. Schools being what they are... I'd think it a bit lower odds to run across someone there with a CCW. Pure supposition on my part.

I'm not a fan of gun free zones but perhaps they have their purpose. Hospitals tend to be, and I think it makes sense (MRI machines, who has custody of gun when disrobed for examination, etc). My understanding is that prisons are gun free zones also. Do schools need to be? I tend to think not, but I'm not sure how to defend letting them in either.

 

[Tom NJ]

It is estimated that there are over 300 million guns in circulation in the USA. All the bad guys have guns, the criminals have guns, the gang-bangers have guns, the drug dealers have guns, and many sick people have guns or access to them. Laws don’t affect these folks as by definition they don’t obey laws. Laws only affect the law-abiding citizens, and they are not the problem.

Sure it would be nice to some if there were no guns at all in the USA, but it's 230 years too late. One would need to go back to the 1780s and try to convince our founding fathers that an armed populace is a bad idea. Good luck with that after they just secured their freedom through an armed populace.

If one wants to ban all guns, start with the bad guys. After you disarm all of them, send me an email and you can have mine as I won’t need them anymore. In the mean time I need mine to protect my family from the very element that are allowed to have guns through ineffective enforcement of thousands of existing laws.

It would also be nice if sick people could not just walk into a store and buy a gun, but that presents a few problems:

1. Who defines sick?
2. How do you recognize them?
3. Unlike the privileges of flying or driving, the rights encoded in our constitution are sacred, apply to all citizens, and cannot be infringed without due process of law.

It would also be nice if all of the world’s leaders got together, laid down their arms, hugged each other and sang Kumbaya. Dreaming, hoping, wishing, and praying will not remove evil from our midst. We must acknowledge it, face it, and defeat or contain it while preserving the rights and freedoms of the rest of us. A complex problem to be sure, and there are no fast and easy solutions.

Here are some rational suggestions from a very qualified person:

An Opinion on Gun Control

 

[RF4guy]

I have no problem at all with more stringent background checks...there should be. This guy had the cops called to his house 39 times...he tortured animals...he assaulted his mother.....but people continue to blame the firearms. Folks need to realize you can't pass a law to make bad things stop happening. Its not the weapons, its the people and our society that needs fixed.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I guess that would depend on how the entry to the building is set up. I don't think it would be all that difficult to protect the guard with a double set of bullet proof doors and a metal detector in the middle of them. Students might have to plan on getting out a bed a few minutes earlier during school days to pass through security.


True, that could work. Although my next thought is: what kind of annoyance would that be, to get in (think airport screen lines & time spent in a line), and... doesn't that just move the target-rich area from inside to outside?

Not being argumentative, just pondering over it all, just like everyone else.