I started out with VW bugs. When I saw the 528e used the same horrendous ceramic fuses, it was like old home week. The only parts that bio-degraded were the bodies. I grok German engineering, I just can't afford it anymore.
Reliability of European Makes and cars in general
- Thread starter BMWTurboDzl
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by supton
IIRC people keep cars for a short(er) period of time over there.
Not sure about Europe but isn't used car prices like insanely low in the UK? I don't know if this factors in or not. As in, no one wants to keep them that long, thus a mandate to make them more easily recycled. And, at least over there, it's not that big of a deal.
Just wild speculation on my part.
Go to Eastern Europe, any taxi is well over 400k on any engine.
Lots of miles, short period of time. Not too surprising. Same here, fleet vehicles can hit high miles. Not sure that translates to the general population though, most people do not put 50k/year onto a vehicle.
No they do not put 50k, but I think you do not understand Eastern European market. Most used cars from Western Europe, with some 100-150k end up in Eastern Europe where they continue to live pretty much until they disintegrate.
On taxis, comparison is not very good. Many US taxis have large engines. Even if they are 4cyl, displacement is at least 2.5-27ltr. Taxis in Europe more often then not have engines 1.6ltr or less in displacement.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by supton
IIRC people keep cars for a short(er) period of time over there.
Not sure about Europe but isn't used car prices like insanely low in the UK? I don't know if this factors in or not. As in, no one wants to keep them that long, thus a mandate to make them more easily recycled. And, at least over there, it's not that big of a deal.
Go to Eastern Europe, any taxi is well over 400k on any engine.
Lots of miles, short period of time. Not too surprising. Same here, fleet vehicles can hit high miles. Not sure that translates to the general population though, most people do not put 50k/year onto a vehicle.
No they do not put 50k, but I think you do not understand Eastern European market. Most used cars from Western Europe, with some 100-150k end up in Eastern Europe where they continue to live pretty much until they disintegrate.
On taxis, comparison is not very good. Many US taxis have large engines. Even if they are 4cyl, displacement is at least 2.5-27ltr. Taxis in Europe more often then not have engines 1.6ltr or less in displacement.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by wemay
Every time someone brings up an alleged issue or stereotype concerning a Euro brand, you have to turn around and attack a brand from somewhere else. Defending the euros by using their vehicle merits should be enough.
You have something against the fact that Toyota is POS?
Every time someone brings up an alleged issue or stereotype concerning a Euro brand, you have to turn around and attack a brand from somewhere else. Defending the euros by using their vehicle merits should be enough.
You have something against the fact that Toyota is POS?
I think the biggest variable in how reliable a vehicle is and how long it lasts is primarily dependent on the owner and where the car resides. Japanese cars have their issues, German cars have their issues, and American cars have their issues. Treat them with respect and maintain them well, most any car will provide trouble free service and last a very long time.
Scott
Scott
Quote
That is your OPINION, not a fact.
I know for a fact that rear view mirrors on my Toyota with 50k, move forward when I brake and move back when I accelerate (and it is not due to exotic power under the hood).
I know that windows have this acoustic effect called rattling when I increase volume.
I own Land Cruiser in Europe which was far less reliable than any European diesel I had.
So, those are the facts.
Interestingly, every time when subject is European cars is open expensive bills, etc. are talked about like they are facts.
So yeah, Sienna is POS, and Land Cruiser I have is not really in that category due to very good 4WD, but everything else, ESPECIALLY suspension is of abysmal quality.
That is your OPINION, not a fact.
I know for a fact that rear view mirrors on my Toyota with 50k, move forward when I brake and move back when I accelerate (and it is not due to exotic power under the hood).
I know that windows have this acoustic effect called rattling when I increase volume.
I own Land Cruiser in Europe which was far less reliable than any European diesel I had.
So, those are the facts.
Interestingly, every time when subject is European cars is open expensive bills, etc. are talked about like they are facts.
So yeah, Sienna is POS, and Land Cruiser I have is not really in that category due to very good 4WD, but everything else, ESPECIALLY suspension is of abysmal quality.
Last edited:
Long before any of these recyclable rules came out, European vehicles suffered degradation of components that other makes did not. Case in point, Mercedes cars in Florida during the early 1980's suffered rubber failures everywhere, including suspension components. Foam came out of AC vents, turned to goo and stained peoples clothes.
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I think the biggest variable in how reliable a vehicle is and how long it lasts is primarily dependent on the owner and where the car resides. Japanese cars have their issues, German cars have their issues, and American cars have their issues. Treat them with respect and maintain them well, most any car will provide trouble free service and last a very long time.
Scott
I agree, none of the 11 BMWs I've owned have been all that difficult to maintain. As far as electrical issues go, my E3 needed new alternator brushes at 80 k and a heater blower fan a few months later. Aside from that, the only other electrical issues I've had to deal with were a $25 brake light switch on my E36/5 3er and an auxiliary fan replaced under warranty on my F22 2er. That said, I would like to replace the 2 Series- with an M2C...
I think the biggest variable in how reliable a vehicle is and how long it lasts is primarily dependent on the owner and where the car resides. Japanese cars have their issues, German cars have their issues, and American cars have their issues. Treat them with respect and maintain them well, most any car will provide trouble free service and last a very long time.
Scott
I agree, none of the 11 BMWs I've owned have been all that difficult to maintain. As far as electrical issues go, my E3 needed new alternator brushes at 80 k and a heater blower fan a few months later. Aside from that, the only other electrical issues I've had to deal with were a $25 brake light switch on my E36/5 3er and an auxiliary fan replaced under warranty on my F22 2er. That said, I would like to replace the 2 Series- with an M2C...
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by Cujet
Long before any of these recyclable rules came out, European vehicles suffered degradation of components that other makes did not. Case in point, Mercedes cars in Florida during the early 1980's suffered rubber failures everywhere, including suspension components. Foam came out of AC vents, turned to goo and stained peoples clothes.
Haha, you just brought back memories of my VW Corrado G60 back in the 90s. Especially the orange gooey foam headliner. I still love that car.
Long before any of these recyclable rules came out, European vehicles suffered degradation of components that other makes did not. Case in point, Mercedes cars in Florida during the early 1980's suffered rubber failures everywhere, including suspension components. Foam came out of AC vents, turned to goo and stained peoples clothes.
Haha, you just brought back memories of my VW Corrado G60 back in the 90s. Especially the orange gooey foam headliner. I still love that car.
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Have you every wondered why Euro cars suffer from so many electrical issues and copious amounts of plastic components which undergo catastrophic failure? IMO the primary driver behind that is the EU-End of Life Vehicle Directive of 2000. Basically the end result is a vehicle of which upwards to 85% can be easily recyclable or 95% recovered. This also impacts makes sold in other jurisdictions because manufacturers use the same parts across all markets. So now you know why your vehicle uses that garbage material for the valve cover/oil pan gasket.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:02000L0053-20130611&qid=1405610569066&from=EN
Something to chew on.
I do not know man, but my Toyota has more broken plastic pieces in 6 months than all European cars I owned combined. Actually, I am afraid suspension is going to break at any point considering noise when I hit even smallest pothole.
I think issue is more complex, and this is just my hypothesis. You know that for example BMW N63 engine which is notorious for failing coolant hoses is running at 110c. I think very high operating temperature in many of these cars, to increase efficiency is culprit behind it. Than of course there are some stupid calls like plastic
propellers on water pumps and BMW decision to put electric water pump (OK can see idea behind it, but did not work obviously very well).
Every time someone brings up an alleged issue or stereotype concerning a Euro brand, you have to turn around and attack a brand from somewhere else. Defending the euros by using their vehicle merits should be enough.
Eh, slap a German badge on this Sienna and edy would proclaim it the best family vehicle ever built.
Everyone knows somebody with a high miles daily driver Sienna and they don't fall apart in or out as edy claims they do.
Also possible that edy bought a really well used van that the BMW dealer he got it from picked up at auction.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Have you every wondered why Euro cars suffer from so many electrical issues and copious amounts of plastic components which undergo catastrophic failure? IMO the primary driver behind that is the EU-End of Life Vehicle Directive of 2000. Basically the end result is a vehicle of which upwards to 85% can be easily recyclable or 95% recovered. This also impacts makes sold in other jurisdictions because manufacturers use the same parts across all markets. So now you know why your vehicle uses that garbage material for the valve cover/oil pan gasket.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:02000L0053-20130611&qid=1405610569066&from=EN
Something to chew on.
I do not know man, but my Toyota has more broken plastic pieces in 6 months than all European cars I owned combined. Actually, I am afraid suspension is going to break at any point considering noise when I hit even smallest pothole.
I think issue is more complex, and this is just my hypothesis. You know that for example BMW N63 engine which is notorious for failing coolant hoses is running at 110c. I think very high operating temperature in many of these cars, to increase efficiency is culprit behind it. Than of course there are some stupid calls like plastic
propellers on water pumps and BMW decision to put electric water pump (OK can see idea behind it, but did not work obviously very well).
Every time someone brings up an alleged issue or stereotype concerning a Euro brand, you have to turn around and attack a brand from somewhere else. Defending the euros by using their vehicle merits should be enough.
Eh, slap a German badge on this Sienna and edy would proclaim it the best family vehicle ever built.
Everyone knows somebody with a high miles daily driver Sienna and they don't fall apart in or out as edy claims they do.
Also possible that edy bought a really well used van that the BMW dealer he got it from picked up at auction.
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I think the biggest variable in how reliable a vehicle is and how long it lasts is primarily dependent on the owner and where the car resides. Japanese cars have their issues, German cars have their issues, and American cars have their issues. Treat them with respect and maintain them well, most any car will provide trouble free service and last a very long time.
Scott
I agree. Any brand of vehicle, treated well and well maintained will provide many years of service.
Some of these comments are hard to believe.
I think the biggest variable in how reliable a vehicle is and how long it lasts is primarily dependent on the owner and where the car resides. Japanese cars have their issues, German cars have their issues, and American cars have their issues. Treat them with respect and maintain them well, most any car will provide trouble free service and last a very long time.
Scott
I agree. Any brand of vehicle, treated well and well maintained will provide many years of service.
Some of these comments are hard to believe.
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by supton
IIRC people keep cars for a short(er) period of time over there.
Except for Finland. Old car park. High taxes is the reason
We were in Norway this past summer. Only very new cars on the streets. A lot of Tesla model Ss. After a while I started to look for older cars and only saw a couple.
Originally Posted by supton
IIRC people keep cars for a short(er) period of time over there.
Except for Finland. Old car park. High taxes is the reason
We were in Norway this past summer. Only very new cars on the streets. A lot of Tesla model Ss. After a while I started to look for older cars and only saw a couple.
Originally Posted by MCompact
That said, I would like to replace the 2 Series- with an M2C...
Are you unhappy with your M235i? If so I'd like to hear why.
That said, I would like to replace the 2 Series- with an M2C...
Are you unhappy with your M235i? If so I'd like to hear why.
I had a 96 MB E300 that had biodegradable electric wire insulation and I had to get an entire wire harness in engine bay. Car had about 300k miles when I gave it to my nephew and he drove it another 45k and basically thrashed it before he let it go.
Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I think the biggest variable in how reliable a vehicle is and how long it lasts is primarily dependent on the owner and where the car resides. Japanese cars have their issues, German cars have their issues, and American cars have their issues. Treat them with respect and maintain them well, most any car will provide trouble free service and last a very long time.
Scott
^This. Other than that this thread is a typical Euro car bash thread, if its not a Panther, has a bed on the back or is Japanese its a POS, same old song and dance and not worth posting an opinion in.
I think the biggest variable in how reliable a vehicle is and how long it lasts is primarily dependent on the owner and where the car resides. Japanese cars have their issues, German cars have their issues, and American cars have their issues. Treat them with respect and maintain them well, most any car will provide trouble free service and last a very long time.
Scott
^This. Other than that this thread is a typical Euro car bash thread, if its not a Panther, has a bed on the back or is Japanese its a POS, same old song and dance and not worth posting an opinion in.
Originally Posted by ecotourist
Originally Posted by MCompact
That said, I would like to replace the 2 Series- with an M2C...
Are you unhappy with your M235i? If so I'd like to hear why.
I'm not unhappy with it at all; I'd just like to have a car that is a bit more track-focused now that I'm not using the M235i for a daily driver. I still think that the M235i is an exceptional car- getting an M2C is more of a long-term goal. I really can't think of anything else I'd want to replace it with.
Originally Posted by MCompact
That said, I would like to replace the 2 Series- with an M2C...
Are you unhappy with your M235i? If so I'd like to hear why.
I'm not unhappy with it at all; I'd just like to have a car that is a bit more track-focused now that I'm not using the M235i for a daily driver. I still think that the M235i is an exceptional car- getting an M2C is more of a long-term goal. I really can't think of anything else I'd want to replace it with.
Originally Posted by Trav
^This. Other than that this thread is a typical Euro car bash thread, if its not a Panther, has a bed on the back or is Japanese its a POS, same old song and dance and not worth posting an opinion in.
You forgot to mention that 99% of the folks bashing European cars have yet to even sit in one...
^This. Other than that this thread is a typical Euro car bash thread, if its not a Panther, has a bed on the back or is Japanese its a POS, same old song and dance and not worth posting an opinion in.
You forgot to mention that 99% of the folks bashing European cars have yet to even sit in one...
That is true.
my fully galvanized bodied 2001 VW jetta was the BEST vehicle i ever owned! 200,000 miles of salty Pa roads + no rust except the corners where dealer mud flaps were + only surface rust, using some oil but still 20 on the boost-vac gauge i installed, still running great when traded on a lo mile 2001 Audi TT 225Q roadster, the same but different!! both manual tranny's of course.
- Status
