Regarding 1st oil change on new vehicle...

[Hermann]

2K, 6K, and 10K oil and filter changes and then after 10K, I would do 7K changes until 200K rolls around on the odometer.

 

[loneryder]

I guess it depends on the vehicle. With some engines a significant amount of old oil is left behind with the previous filter. Why take the chance of contaminating the new oil? Maybe the cartridge or Hengst style filters are different and minimal oil is left behind.

I do know that on some Toyotas there is more of a procedure to change the cartridge filter......i.e. more effort as compared to others cartridge set ups or spin on filters. From my simple POV I am just trying to understand the logic of not changing it with the oil.

I would also be using a Toyota branded filter while the car is still under warranty.

deleted

 

[Hermann]

He has a RAV 4 hybrid.

 

[Hermann]

My question is why? Is the filter that costly or that much of a hassle to change? Why not change it too at 5K?

The filter and oil plug are very easy to get to on that vehicle.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Lots of differing opinions, as usual. I'm actually a bit surprised at dnewton3, who normally seems to favor practical return on investment type logic. Here, he admits no data to substantiate early OCI on new engines, yet he chooses his comfort level of doing shorter initial oil/filter changes.

Approaching old age, I found that if I am debating something like this, I just spend the $8 and put the anxiety to rest. Some people play golf, others shoot literally thousands of ammo rounds annually. What's the deal about stressing over an extra $8 filter/$25 oil once or twice a year on a $40,000 vehicle?

Penny wise and pound foolish are many.

 

[atikovi]

Here, he admits no data to substantiate early OCI on new engines, yet he chooses his comfort level of doing shorter initial oil/filter changes.

Read some owners manuals of cars, particularly European makes from the 70's or 80s, maybe even later, and they will often recommend the first oil change at 1,000 or even 500 miles to remove the wear particles generated during break-in. Engines are still made of steel and aluminum so I see no reason to deviate from that practice now.

 

[doitmyself]

Read some owners manuals of cars, particularly European makes from the 70's or 80s, maybe even later, and they will often recommend the first oil change at 1,000 or even 500 miles to remove the wear particles generated during break-in. Engines are still made of steel and aluminum so I see no reason to deviate from that practice now.

You think that modern engine manufacturing results in similar assembly/wear-in debris as 40-50 years ago?

 

[PimTac]

1000 miles on the vehicle, how many with the engine running?

 

[Owen Lucas]

I did the break in oil change at 2000 miles on my 21 Pilot but then someone here mentioned Honda uses special oil from the factory to break the engine in. IIRC there is extra moly in it?

So either let the engine break in with the "special factory oil" and break in materials or just change it to get rid of any machining materials.

For my next new vehicle I'm putting a magnet on the oil filter when new, maybe I'll get some surprises after opening it up after the first oil change.

 

[atikovi]

You think that modern engine manufacturing results in similar assembly/wear-in debris as 40-50 years ago?

Just because the manufacturing process is more automated with robots doing more of the assembly, you still have the same pistons and rings sliding up and down in cylinders of aluminum or steel, same as 50 years ago.

 

[Zee09]

Penny wise and pound foolish are many.

Or foolishly wasteful without evidence or cause... That said to each their own....

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Or foolishly wasteful without evidence or cause... That said to each their own....

Saving ~$50 every 6 months or so is not really meaningful financially. Most people are better off paying more attention to spending less on interest payments, taxes, and insurance than worrying about penny pinching on commodities in general. Furthermore, people are generally better off thinking more about how to earn money than save it. The entire attitude of trying to save money is not one that tends to lead to wealth. You can only save what you have, but what you can earn is essentially limitless.

 

[Zee09]

Saving ~$50 every 6 months or so is not really meaningful financially. Most people are better off paying more attention to spending less on interest payments and insurance than worrying about penny pinching on commodities in general. Furthermore, people are generally better off thinking more about how to earn money than save it. The entire attitude of trying to save money is not one that tends to lead to wealth. You can only save what you have, but what you can earn is essentially limitless.

That's not my approach or many others on here. Has nothing to do with cheapness.

HPL and Amsoil users etc. are not usually cheapskates . It's about not being obsessed to the point of being wasteful and anxious over frivolous nonsense.

Engine design, engineering , proper and clean assembly as well as QC. mean more for engine durability than obsessive oil changes to get your jollies off.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Cousin bought a new RAV4 hybrid about 4 months ago. At 72, he still drives everything like he stole it. Literally. The purchase included the maintenance package, which provides for one dealership oil change every 10k miles, whether it needs it or not. Oil samples will not be taken, nor will more frequent changes be made.
The first oil change was made at 10k miles. I'll be able to make a continuing report on the longevity of a hard driven RAV4 hybrid with oil changes made every 10k miles. A data point of one isn't normally that valuable, but if this car survives that will mean something.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

That's not my approach or many others on here. Has nothing to do with cheapness.

HPL and Amsoil users etc. are not usually cheapskates . It's about not being obsessed to the point of being wasteful and anxious over frivolous nonsense.

Engine design, engineering , proper and clean assembly as well as QC. mean more for engine durability than obsessive oil changes to get your jollies off.

I do not disagree but I also do not really follow how what you're saying relates to what I have said. We're on different wavelengths.

 

[Zee09]

I do not disagree but I also do not really follow how what you're saying relates to what I have said. We're on different wavelengths.

You started your last post out like longer OCIs were a cheapness maneuver because saving $50. Yada yada yada and that is what I addressed and gathered from your post.
Could I have misread your intent? Certainly...

 

[LDB]

Cost of vehicle: $40,000?
Cost of filter: $40? (No I don't believe nearly that but who knows)

Option 1 Change oil at 1k miles and keep filter. Save 1/1000 the cost of the vehicle. More likely 1/2000 or even greater as filter is likely $20 at most and probably a bit less. Change oil again at 5k miles and keep filter. Save same amount again. Both times combined 1/1000 at most.

Option 2 Change oil and filter at 1k miles. Spend 1/1000 cost of car extra. Repeat at 5k miles.

Outcome 1. Nothing. HUGE amount of money spent for nothing. [/sarcasm]

Outcome 2. Something removed with replaced filter that would have otherwise damaged $40,000 vehicle but saved by new $40 filter.

Yeah, everyone is probably correct it is option 1 and wasting money. But would you go to Vegas and put down and risk losing $40k to maybe win $40 or would you put down $40 with a chance of winning $40k?

 

[OilyOrangutan]

On a Hybrid, being an owner myself. I would do the first change 1000 miles for sure. I would definitely change your oil AND filter every 6 months regardless of mileage on the low side, and around 5-6000 on the high side. The OEM filter isn't very expensive, and when you buy boxes of 10 the dealers give you a pretty sweet deal. At least they do around here. The oil gets a lot of fuel contamination from the improper warm up cycles that often occur. Beyond the fuel it is also prone to get some water condensation now and then too depending of course on your environment.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

You started your last post out like longer OCIs were a cheapness maneuver because saving $50. Yada yada yada and that is what I addressed and gathered from your post.
Could I have misread your intent? Certainly...

My point is simply that there is no financial reason to stress over the trivial amounts of money people quibble over with respect to oil. 5k, 10k, bottom shelf, boutique. It doesn't really matter in a financial sense because there's usually much higher order of magnitude things to pay attention to financially that move the needle more in most people's lives. An extra $50-100 once or twice a year should be next to meaningless for overall financial planning.

I am not telling anyone how often they should change their oil and I am not saying that people should always do short oil intervals. I am saying the financial aspect of it is usually fairly negligible in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Zee09]

My point is simply that there is no financial reason to stress over the trivial amounts of money people quibble over with respect to oil. 5k, 10k, bottom shelf, boutique. It doesn't really matter in a financial sense because there's usually much higher order of magnitude things to pay attention to financially that move the needle more in most people's lives. An extra $50-100 once or twice a year should be next to meaningless for overall financial planning.

I am not telling anyone how often they should change their oil and I am not saying that people should always do short oil intervals. I am saying the financial aspect of it is usually fairly negligible in the grand scheme of things.

That said I have no problem with that. I do think many oil obsessed people here need to get an EV and that way they can obsess over constantly topping off the charge. Plus you won't get dirty doing that.
A win win ..