Recommended and specified? what's the difference?

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Just read this whole thread. I tend to agree with Nap’s interpretation. The closest thing to “specified” we have is what is recommended in the owners manual.

Isn't the specification specified, whatever that may be?
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Just read this whole thread. I tend to agree with Nap’s interpretation. The closest thing to “specified” we have is what is recommended in the owners manual.


Isn't the specification specified, whatever that may be?


I’m not tracking.
 
As usual, it looks like that the lawyers have done a good job creating loopholes and confusion in case needed!
grin.gif
 
Forget recommended, stick with required. Recommended is open for interpretation. The whole point of this website is to get the best or GOAT.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
For example, Toyota recommends I use their car care products in the owner's manual for the exterior of my cars. Would my rust-through warranty have been denied if I had not used their recommended detergent or wax? They also recommend I use only Toyota branded parts, will my warranty be denied if I use something else? Even the dealer doesn't use all Toyota branded parts.


The idea is that they are warranting only their own products to be compatible with their paint and trim elements. If someone has the bright idea to wash the car with CLR then Toyota will have the right to decline to repaint the car under warranty. And neither will CLR maker help, as the instructions for the product do not suggest using it for car washing.

Now if you use some car product like Mothers or Meguiars and they create issues, you’ll have to take it with them, not with Toyota. As it’s them that claim the product to be “compatible with all paints”.

For parts it’s the same. The warranty for the part is the responsibility of their respective manufacturer. If a non-Toyota part created a chain of failures, you’ll have to take it with that part’s manufacturer for the whole mess.
 
Originally Posted By: PimTac
“Recommended” is another word for suggested. Specified means to be specific.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/specified

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/suggested


So, to be specific means to be detailed and exact.


'zackerly.

e.g.
specification 5W30 Dexos 2
Recommended Castrol Magnatec OE 5W30

means that I MUST use 5W30 Dexos2, and they would LIKE me to use Magnatec OE 5W30.

Under MM, if I MUST use Magnatec OE5W30, they MUST give it to me free.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Just read this whole thread. I tend to agree with Nap’s interpretation. The closest thing to “specified” we have is what is recommended in the owners manual.

Isn't the specification specified, whatever that may be?

I’m not tracking.

What I mean is that the oil specification such as SN or Longlife-01 is what's specified, what's recommended is a viscosity grade. I could see warranty issues if one were to use SA oil in a new BMW for example.
 
Originally Posted By: nap
The idea is that they are warranting only their own products to be compatible with their paint and trim elements. If someone has the bright idea to wash the car with CLR then Toyota will have the right to decline to repaint the car under warranty. And neither will CLR maker help, as the instructions for the product do not suggest using it for car washing.

Now if you use some car product like Mothers or Meguiars and they create issues, you’ll have to take it with them, not with Toyota. As it’s them that claim the product to be “compatible with all paints”.

For parts it’s the same. The warranty for the part is the responsibility of their respective manufacturer. If a non-Toyota part created a chain of failures, you’ll have to take it with that part’s manufacturer for the whole mess.

But that's not true. If I have rust issues Toyota won't deny my rust-through warranty because I used Turtle Wax to wash my car, and I don't have to go to Turtle Wax for the warranty. Again, using a product that is wholly inappropriate is one thing but not using the recommended one is isn't going to affect my warranty. People keep deviating this into the concept of using wood glue as oil but that's not the issue here. The issue is using "oil" that isn't the recommended one. The bottom line is that recommendations are just that - recommendations.

If the Turtle Wax was defective and ruined my paint, yes I'd go to them. But that's not what I meant. Some automakers recommend a certain brand of fuel, will my warranty be denied because I go to Shell instead of the recommended BP (assuming I don't get defective fuel)?
 
You are correct, they won’t deny your rust warranty just because u used Turtle Wax. However, as you have also noticed, if they have solid indication that your product has actually initiated or significantly contributed to the rust problem, then they have reserved the right to decline ithe warranty.

Same with engine oil. Most likely they won’t argue about fixing your trunk latch under warranty, regardless of your engine oil status. But if you go there with bent rods and scuffed pistons and they notice you were using 15W50 boutique racing oil, they have the right to decline.
 
In my Honda manual it seems “Recommended” refers to fluids that Honda makes but where acceptable alternatives exist. Motor oil is one example. “Specified” applies to fluids where Honda-branded parts are the only choice. Fluid for automatic transmissions, CVTs, engine coolant and the like fall into this category.

The “Recommended” engine oil for my car is Honda API-certified 0w-20. Wondering if I could up the viscosity because it was only recommended, not specified I called Honda and was told that was not an option. So, it seems the only difference between “Recommended”and “Specified” is whether there’s a viable non-Honda-branded product available.

The Magnussen-Moss question is a good one, though. If only Honda fluids are acceptable, shouldn’t they be provided at no cost?
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Just read this whole thread. I tend to agree with Nap’s interpretation. The closest thing to “specified” we have is what is recommended in the owners manual.

Isn't the specification specified, whatever that may be?

I’m not tracking.

What I mean is that the oil specification such as SN or Longlife-01 is what's specified, what's recommended is a viscosity grade. I could see warranty issues if one were to use SA oil in a new BMW for example.

Gotcha. Does the Honda OM “specify” an oil? I thought this whole thing started because it only recommends an oil.
 
Gents why don’t we agree on a particular model and manual, download the pdf and we discuss the very same pages.
 
Originally Posted By: nap
Gents why don’t we agree on a particular model and manual, download the pdf and we discuss the very same pages.

The one I was looking at was 2017 Civic Sedan.
 
It says “Use Genuine Honda Motor Oil or another commercial engine oil of suitable viscosity for the ambient temperature as shown.” and shows 0W20 as the only suitable viscosity.

I find it very difficult to construe that they have specified any other SAE weight.

And I use “specified” in the dictionary sense, ie “indicated clearly and precisely”.
 
PS. Additionally, by logical negation, any other oil would be qualified as “unsuitable”.
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Sorry guys, here's what I was referring to





It’s very clear. The coolant and brake fluids are specific so use those fluids. The oil is recommended so use the Honda oil or another brand that meets the specs.
 
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