Redline MTL is what all of these boxes love.
Pentosin MTF2 Discontinued - What else to use?
- Thread starter bimmerdriver
- Start date
+1
Why not Amsoil MTG? It's a 75w90 GL-4. I have used it in sub-zero Fahrenheit temperatures without issues. Getting a diesel cranked over was a bigger issue.
Anyone with an E46 M3 will know what I'm talking about, but if you haven't owned one, the gearboxes are notoriously cranky when they are cold. Even with OE 75w80 fluid, second gear is very difficult to engage for the first few times on a cold gearbox. Cold being under 10 C. I don't even try to engage second when it's under 0 C. Some people have found that with some types of fluid, they could not engage second at all until the gearbox warmed up.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: bimmerdriver
I'm hoping to get some advice on transmission fluid for my 2002 BMW M3 6MT.
I was going to purchase some Pentosin MTF2 from ECS Tuning, because it's available in a 1 l container, rather than BMW MTF-LT-2, which is only available in a 5 l container. However, Pentosin MTF2 has been discontinued. ECS Tuning is now recommending Pentosin FFL-4. This seems wrong, because according to Pentosin, FFL-4 "features a special clutch friction performance which makes it mandatory to be applied solely to the double clutch gear box." I'm not clear why ECS Tuning would be recommending it for my car.
ECS Tuning also carries FEBI products, and they have a 75w-80 that is supposedly interchangeable with MTF-LT-2. However, the FEBI product is GL-5, whereas MTF-LT-2 is GL-4. Is GL-5 a suitable replacement for GL-4?
ECS Tuning also carries Motul products and they say that either MotylGear 75w90 or Gear 300 75w90 are options. Both are GL-4 and GL-5. Both of these are thicker than MTF-LT-2. Gear 300 is "100% Synthetic" and MotylGear is "Technosynthese".
According to Motul, the recommended products are MotylGear 75w80 or Multi DCTF 75w90. The former makes sense, but not the latter. I didn't find MotylGear 75w80 on their website, only 75w90. Anyone know what the difference is between 100% Synthetic and Technosynthese? I wonder why the former is twice the price of the latter.
They are recommending Pentosin FFL-4 because it is the correct viscosity (7.0 cSt@100C) and has the proper friction modifiers in it.
These cranky trannies will not work well in cold weather with MotylGear 75w80 (10.1 cSt@100C) or higher viscosity fluids. Forget about any of those 75W90 MTF's as well.
I'm hoping to get some advice on transmission fluid for my 2002 BMW M3 6MT.
I was going to purchase some Pentosin MTF2 from ECS Tuning, because it's available in a 1 l container, rather than BMW MTF-LT-2, which is only available in a 5 l container. However, Pentosin MTF2 has been discontinued. ECS Tuning is now recommending Pentosin FFL-4. This seems wrong, because according to Pentosin, FFL-4 "features a special clutch friction performance which makes it mandatory to be applied solely to the double clutch gear box." I'm not clear why ECS Tuning would be recommending it for my car.
ECS Tuning also carries FEBI products, and they have a 75w-80 that is supposedly interchangeable with MTF-LT-2. However, the FEBI product is GL-5, whereas MTF-LT-2 is GL-4. Is GL-5 a suitable replacement for GL-4?
ECS Tuning also carries Motul products and they say that either MotylGear 75w90 or Gear 300 75w90 are options. Both are GL-4 and GL-5. Both of these are thicker than MTF-LT-2. Gear 300 is "100% Synthetic" and MotylGear is "Technosynthese".
According to Motul, the recommended products are MotylGear 75w80 or Multi DCTF 75w90. The former makes sense, but not the latter. I didn't find MotylGear 75w80 on their website, only 75w90. Anyone know what the difference is between 100% Synthetic and Technosynthese? I wonder why the former is twice the price of the latter.
They are recommending Pentosin FFL-4 because it is the correct viscosity (7.0 cSt@100C) and has the proper friction modifiers in it.
These cranky trannies will not work well in cold weather with MotylGear 75w80 (10.1 cSt@100C) or higher viscosity fluids. Forget about any of those 75W90 MTF's as well.
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MolaKule
Staff member
Here is an Updated List of MTF's by 100C Viscosity:
These are dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTF's.
NOTE: This list is only a “suggested” list of MTFs. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or are worn.
A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.x cSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) and SAE 70 or so are:
1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]
B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.5 cSt@100C versions [SAE 70W75] (About the same viscosity as the original DexronIII/Merc)
1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2
7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)
8. Pentosin Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia)
9. Pentosin FFL-4
C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt
D. Redline DCTF Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid (8.1 cSt)
E. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II (8.2 cSt)
F. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt
F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt
G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt
H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range:
1. Redline MTL 75W80
2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)
3. GM Synchromesh’s
4. Volvo MTF 645
5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF
7. Motylgear 75W-80
I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a 12.0cSt@100C and SAE 75W85:
1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt
J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt (SAE 75W90) range would be:
1. Amsoil MTG
2. Redline MT-90
3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90
4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90
5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS
7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.
These are dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTF's.
NOTE: This list is only a “suggested” list of MTFs. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or are worn.
A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.x cSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) and SAE 70 or so are:
1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]
B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.5 cSt@100C versions [SAE 70W75] (About the same viscosity as the original DexronIII/Merc)
1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2
7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)
8. Pentosin Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia)
9. Pentosin FFL-4
C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt
D. Redline DCTF Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid (8.1 cSt)
E. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II (8.2 cSt)
F. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt
F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt
G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt
H. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range:
1. Redline MTL 75W80
2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)
3. GM Synchromesh’s
4. Volvo MTF 645
5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF
7. Motylgear 75W-80
I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a 12.0cSt@100C and SAE 75W85:
1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt
J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt (SAE 75W90) range would be:
1. Amsoil MTG
2. Redline MT-90
3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90
4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90
5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
6. Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS
7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.
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Thank you very much for that list MolaKule. I am searching for a replacement to the OE Pentosin fluid for an E46 gearbox and transfer case. Your input and vast knowledge base are an asset to this board.
In case you missed it, Pentosin is still making MTF-2.
http://www.pentosin.net/f_transmissionfluid.asp
There are many suppliers still carrying it.
http://www.pentosin.net/f_transmissionfluid.asp
There are many suppliers still carrying it.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
In case you missed it, Pentosin is still making MTF-2.
http://www.pentosin.net/f_transmissionfluid.asp
There are many suppliers still carrying it.
The info on the pentosin website is ambiguous. A product document from 2016 said it would be discontinued. Some suppliers claim it's no longer available and it seems that the suppliers that still have it are holding inventory that will not be replenished. Someone on M3 Forum supposedly bought up all the remaining stock from one supplier.
In case you missed it, Pentosin is still making MTF-2.
http://www.pentosin.net/f_transmissionfluid.asp
There are many suppliers still carrying it.
The info on the pentosin website is ambiguous. A product document from 2016 said it would be discontinued. Some suppliers claim it's no longer available and it seems that the suppliers that still have it are holding inventory that will not be replenished. Someone on M3 Forum supposedly bought up all the remaining stock from one supplier.
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Thanks everyone for your replies. I was able to get BMW MTF-LT-2 from the stealership, so went with it. I'm very tempted to try Ravenol next time.
This is an old thread, I know, but i want to mention that Pentosin MTF 2 is no longer being mfr'd but appears to still be available on a new/old stock basis... This product is very, very "light" by way of SAE viscosity grade for still being 75W-80 (and it is GL-4). I know folks, in varying cars, find cold temp shifting a PITA (and M-3's may exceed the PITA definition, for that matter)... but some cold temp recalcitrance, well, might just be considered parr for the course with manuals. Some may disagree; I have always found this to be the case
All of this aside, the Pentosin mentioned might give some folks good results. Spendy, but it may be worth it for some...
All of this aside, the Pentosin mentioned might give some folks good results. Spendy, but it may be worth it for some...
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