PCC vs Shotgun for home defense

[weaponoffreedom]

I can run my benelli m4 entry just fine. Loading, select slug, support side, under nods, white light, you name it. However...

I have moved more to an 11.5" 5.56 gun as a do all. It allows me to reach across my yard and deal with a coyote as easily as cleansing my livingroom. Also, with a can, its far less obnoxious than the m4 entry even using le133.

PCCs just kindof...nah. They don't give you the projectile volume of a gauge, or the damage of the 5.56. I have zero application for a PCC.

i have done some terminal ballistic testing with 9mm out of 16 inch barrel, and although not rifle or shotgun power, fmj 9mm out of a longer barrel has some effects over the pistol length.

i have never heard or seen anyone get up after taking a 00buck, 556 and 9mm, is a different story

I think for your dual role a short AR is optimal, especially when you have problems with coyotes.

do you have a thermal?

 

[Ws6]

i have done some terminal ballistic testing with 9mm out of 16 inch barrel, and although not rifle or shotgun power, fmj 9mm out of a longer barrel has some effects over the pistol length.

i have never heard or seen anyone get up after taking a 00buck, 556 and 9mm, is a different story

I think for your dual role a short AR is optimal, especially when you have problems with coyotes.

do you have a thermal?

No thermal, yet. I'd like to snag something along the lines of a Cratos (if I could snag one "cheap") or AN/PAS-13G, and don't want to spend the cash right now. Just the Raid Xe and RNVG-A I bought this year have me a bit sad, lol!

Yes, if you can push the 9mm past about 16-1800fps at impact, you may begin seeing some low velocity rifle-like effects. Something like 9BPLE might get you there as it will also fragment out of a longer barrel, which will enhance the effect, but also limit penetration of this round to possibly unacceptable levels.

I have a picture of someone who took a round of LE132 or 133 to the chest (sans body armor or a nutty amount of clothing or anything like that) and lived with no real deficits afterward. There is ALWAYS an oddball story out there, but by and large, that's a super oddball story.

 

[MSCH]

it might be a task under duress if one has no experience with firearm manipulation at 160 bpm. Handing little things get hard to do, but i agree, easy to learn

of all the firearms I own, this one would be the easiest to load and unload in the dark.
now if a person was locked and loaded ahead of time, something else is a better choice.

 

[OVERKILL]

right so that is one of my points.........shotguns are hungry, and eat a bunch per bite.... I would say the average shotggun, from which one would use for defense would have 5 rounds capacity in the magazine. So one discipline that must be learned is reloading, and reloading while in motion, and or in postures that are less than comfortable........is what I mean.

There are a few shotguns which can take larger mags (like the Derya MK12), but for those of us in the GWN, 5rnds (well, 6, you can have one in the chamber) is the legal limit for a semi. Pistols are limited to 10, but they have to be double locked up, which makes them borderline useless, but, IIRC, a PCC is held to the pistol mag capacity limit and not the rifle mag capacity limit of 5.

Unfortunately, since Trudles and his merry band of incompetents have been mindlessly, and baselessly, banning semis hither and yon, I'm not able to discuss what my preference is beyond it being 12-gauge with 00-buck. Backup would be something in .308.

 

[MSCH]

There are a few shotguns which can take larger mags (like the Derya MK12), but for those of us in the GWN, 5rnds (well, 6, you can have one in the chamber) is the legal limit for a semi. Pistols are limited to 10, but they have to be double locked up, which makes them borderline useless, but, IIRC, a PCC is held to the pistol mag capacity limit and not the rifle mag capacity limit of 5.

Unfortunately, since Trudles and his merry band of incompetents have been mindlessly, and baselessly, banning semis hither and yon, I'm not able to discuss what my preference is beyond it being 12-gauge with 00-buck. Backup would be something in .308.

worth saying the average firefight at home defense range is generally decided by less than a magazine full of whatever the person happens to be using. so thinking you need a 30 shot magazine is just a measure of insecurity... Case in point is in the attachment below, which is a study of police involved shootings..... basically average shooting for police is less than 20 feet, and 4 shots or less.
study is here. see figure 5 and 6. https://www.policinginstitute.org/w...9/05/1.-OIS_incident_exec_summary_8.28.19.pdf

 

[OVERKILL]

worth saying the average firefight at home defense range is generally decided by less than a magazine full of whatever the person happens to be using. so thinking you need a 30 shot magazine is just a measure of insecurity... Case in point is in the attachment below, which is a study of police involved shootings..... basically average shooting for police is less than 20 feet, and 4 shots or less.
study is here. see figure 5 and 6. https://www.policinginstitute.org/w...9/05/1.-OIS_incident_exec_summary_8.28.19.pdf

I was thinking more along the lines of 10rds "just in case" but 5 is what we have, so that's not much of a debate in Canada unfortunately, lol.

 

[MSCH]

I was thinking more along the lines of 10rds "just in case" but 5 is what we have, so that's not much of a debate in Canada unfortunately, lol.

yeah..only thing in my house that is hi capacity is my Glock, and that sucker is locked unloaded in a safe..
I'm 60+ and I've never needed a gun for self defense yet, I figure if I can't do it with 5 shots I won't be able to accomplish my objective with 30 either.

I've read more than one report that said the average shooting in the USA happens at 9 feet or less.
police statistics are similar for their own shooting incidents

 

[Jdeere562]

yeah..only thing in my house that is hi capacity is my Glock, and that sucker is locked unloaded in a safe..
I'm 60+ and I've never needed a gun for self defense yet, I figure if I can't do it with 5 shots I won't be able to accomplish my objective with 30 either.

I've read more than one report that said the average shooting in the USA happens at 9 feet or less.
police statistics are similar for their own shooting incidents

We had a local, rural guy that kept getting his house robbed, when he was at his GF house for the night.

One night they came back when he was home. Chased the robber outside, then "tripped and fell" and the gun went off. 12 gauge with #6 shot as I recall. Took the fight out of the dude for sure! Guess there were 3 robbers. Donnie needed to "trip" 2 more times, but did not.

My Daughter is a nurse and friends with the local responding medic. She said his backside was really a mess, with all those pellets!
He went in front of the grand jury and was found innocent. Cops tracked down the other 2.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

We had a local, rural guy that kept getting his house robbed, when he was at his GF house for the night.

One night they came back when he was home. Chased the robber outside, then "tripped and fell" and the gun went off. 12 gauge with #6 shot as I recall. Took the fight out of the dude for sure! Guess there were 3 robbers. Donnie needed to "trip" 2 more times, but did not.

My Daughter is a nurse and friends with the local responding medic. She said his backside was really a mess, with all those pellets!
He went in front of the grand jury and was found innocent. Cops tracked down the other 2.

Shotguns are not typically drop safe........................

 

[Jdeere562]

Shotguns are not typically drop safe........................

I suppose it would be hard to explain, chambering another round between "falls" I think he had a pump model 870.

Ever shoot a pheasant with birdshot? You must pick out each pellet along with feather residue from each hole.
I would imagine the same is true with shirts and jeans? LOL!

 

[JWC86]

There are a few shotguns which can take larger mags (like the Derya MK12), but for those of us in the GWN, 5rnds (well, 6, you can have one in the chamber) is the legal limit for a semi. Pistols are limited to 10, but they have to be double locked up, which makes them borderline useless, but, IIRC, a PCC is held to the pistol mag capacity limit and not the rifle mag capacity limit of 5.

Unfortunately, since Trudles and his merry band of incompetents have been mindlessly, and baselessly, banning semis hither and yon, I'm not able to discuss what my preference is beyond it being 12-gauge with 00-buck. Backup would be something in .308.

I used to have a half dozen or so mags for my pump action mag fed that just happen to fit my mk12 at the time. I had about a dozen more 10rd mags lol

Maybe when the drama teacher gets replaced I can go back to shooting multi-gun matches again.

 

[OVERKILL]

I used to have a half dozen or so mags for my pump action mag fed that just happen to fit my mk12 at the time. I had about a dozen more 10rd mags lol

View attachment 186612

Maybe when the drama teacher gets replaced I can go back to shooting multi-gun matches again.

That's sure as heck my hope!

The MK12, the AR-10, they were great guns, never used in crime, that these imbeciles virtue signalled on the banning of to put forth this grand illusion of increased public safety.

 

[Dgzrt]

9mm carbine with light and laser. Beretta as back up . But I have found led motion lights and deadbolts work well . I’ve always told myself no chasing but putting two or three rounds in the ground might convince them to not come back .

 

[weaponoffreedom]

I suppose it would be hard to explain, chambering another round between "falls" I think he had a pump model 870.

Ever shoot a pheasant with birdshot? You must pick out each pellet along with feather residue from each hole.
I would imagine the same is true with shirts and jeans? LOL!

well i suppose a possibility would be a slightly loose lockup....see.....when the shotgun was dropped, the bolt moved rearward (probably due to wear), then when he picked up the shotgun, naturally by the slide.....well you get the idea.

 

[Al]

You need to think about this ahead of time to decide which works in say your bedroom v the rest of the house. If there are no kids and you and significant other are in the bedroom it doesn't matter. You get behind the bed and stay put. I don't have a firearm strapped to me so in another part of the house it will be a shotgun.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Shotgun sure can make a big mess lol. I have a .380 ruger with polymer hollow points

 

[Shannow]

Rossi Citadel is the closest in Oz...

 

[supton]

I have tooled around with different brand 9mm PCC's in the past few years and cannot rebuild a 'system' due to finances so I rely on a Ruger 10/22 compact in 22lr using cci minimag solids in that role; I have shot an AR-15 (.223) with no detriment so I might contemplate stepping up later on...

I came across a youtube vid once showing CCI 36 grain mini-mags out of a... not sure if it was a carbine or a regular length rifle. But the fellow showed that there was some expansion in those 36 grain rounds. Not sure which is better, 40 for depth or 36 for a bit of expansion.

Not saying it's ideal but I do have a 10/22 carbine in the safe, 25 round mags, and it'd be what I'd grab first. Mostly because I can't hit the inside of a barn with my revolvers. Not sure I could justify stepping up to a 9mm version but I'd go with that before a shotgun I think. Rounds, recoil and noise. Can't imagine a 556 indoors, I was at a range where someone was shooting a short barrel one and that was stupid loud outdoors and some distance away.

 

[Shannow]

Maybe one of the split round HV .22s...they were used in gang wars about 30 years ago.

 

[kmrinpa]

my circumstances are definitely in the minority...infection has destroyed sight in my non dominant eye & the dead tissue in the back of that eye is prone to detachment...any firearm that generates a moderate to heavy recoil impulse is gone! shotgun, hunting rifle, even magnum handguns with concussive force have been sold off or traded; with that said...

I have tooled around with different brand 9mm PCC's in the past few years and cannot rebuild a 'system' due to finances so I rely on a Ruger 10/22 compact in 22lr using cci minimag solids in that role; I have shot an AR-15 (.223) with no detriment so I might contemplate stepping up later on...

followup...snagged a Radical Firearms RF-15 for $470 & with add-ons like sights, mags, grip panels I have @ $600 invested over the past 2 months; ammo stash is lite with 280 rds of 55gr 223 (pmc & frontier brands); hoping I can get it up to 500rds before the end of the year; mags are a mix of hera arms gen 2 h3t & mft mod 2...30 rounders

had to let go of a few 9mm's, mags, ammo, etc to offset the cost...