PCC vs Shotgun for home defense

[football]

PCC vs shotgun. The topic at hand.

The PCC is the ideal home defense weapon for 95% of American homeowners that can legally own a gun and want to defend their home with a firearm.

A pump shotgun is an experts weapon and ideally should have an experts amount of training before operating. I would not give or recommend this weapon, pretty much at all anymore. They CAN be very effective and likely will be very effective (with buckshot or slug and absolutely NOT birdshot), but also very likely to short stroke in a novices hand, which is 98% of shooters.

A good semi auto shotgun like a Benelli M2 or Beretta 1301 is a much better platform than any pump shotgun. For most shooters. Faster follow up shots and more reliable. Still requires robust amount of training.

PCC- more accurate, low recoil, 30 round stick mags, fast. Easier to train on than a shotgun.

Ballistics- shotguns win with the appropriate ammunition.

Ease of use- PCC wins handily

Since the “average” shooter is really , honestly, untrained and barely proficient, the PCC is the better choice for most shooters.

For a highly skilled, highly trained shooter, the shotgun is probably better.

And yes a PCC is far better than a handgun for home defense. If you own both, the PCC should be your primary home defense weapon.

 

[Elkins45]

Shotgun. People choosing a PCC because there might be 6+ attackers are apparently thinking everyone you aren’t actively shooting is just standing there waiting to be shot. In reality if there are a whole bunch of them then one is probably going to shoot you while you‘re dealing with his friend. With the shotgun you stand a much better chance of only needing one shot per attacker. 12 gauge OO buck fires nine 32 caliber projectiles at once and they do so much more damage than a single 9mm bullet.

Were I going to use a rifle or carbine for home defense it would be in an actual rifle caliber.

 

[CKN]

I have been on this Earth over 60 years- and while I have guns in my safe I have never felt a need to travel with one-nor have I ever needed one when I traveled.

I have been to all 50 states, the countries in the Baltics, (inc. Russia) and the entire continent of South America. And the last one has some pretty sketchy areas compared to the U.S.

Yet-there are some who when they travel domestically won't travel to a state where their concealed carry isn't recognized. Go figure....

 

[ka9mnx]

0% wrong with the Maverick 88. A excellent lower priced Mossberg 500, (which is the best shotgun in the world btw)

Agree, I would have loved a 500. I was looking for a cheap, short shotgun and this one came up on a sale for $200 bucks. The salesperson tried an up sale and I said "look, this thing is going to sit in the corner of my bedroom and collect dust".

Took it out and shot some clay's. Pretty darn accurate. Spoiler, as a kid I took home a lot of rabbits and pheasants!

 

[GON]

,z2z

So the BG’s fled when confronted (which actually proves my point) and the man proceeded to chase them. Which ended up costing him his life. I’m not really sure how this proves a false narrative... It is a sad case of one letting his ego get the best of him. Unfortunately he chose to prioritize possessions over the safety of his son and self and paid for it dearly.

Did you read the entire story? Your post suggests you may not have.

The owners of the cycles returned home after the thieves (now 1st degrees murderers) successfully stole the scooters). The thieves were not happy with just winning the booty of the stolen scooters. The thieves apparently were upset at being challenged during the theft of the scooters. The thieves returned to the scooter's owners home and killed the scooter owner, apparently to punish home for trying to protect his property the thieves we stealing.

The theory you posted that thieves/criminals cower and flee when confronted is flawed, very flawed. The above is just one on many examples that now happens daily in the US. In the above case, the thieves not only got the "booty", but later returned to the place where the theft originated to murder the owner of the scooter for apparently even being confronted during the theft.

Your theory that criminals cower when confronted may have been valid during past times, but in today's environment criminals are many times embolden. Today's criminals often have little fear of being apprehended. That changes the entire landscape of a person protecting their family, their self, their community, and their property.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

my go to, 3 seconds from unloaded to ready to go, in the dark...blindfolded. unloaded even quicker.


View attachment 184525

NEF single?

 

[fdcg27]

Home invasion is not a crime perpetrated by smart mentally competent individuals. It's a high risk, low reward act. Much easier and safer to knock over a bank. They'll give up the cash readily and won't try to shoot you. As long as you have a solid escape plan, maybe using an easily stolen Kia, you stand a good chance of avoiding apprehension.
Deterrence is always better than having to actively repond and the best deterrence is probably some motion activated outdoor lighting and a large dog with a convincing bark. The dog will hear the perps long before they'd awaken you and the barking of the dog will alert you to the need to dial 911 at once as well as to prepare to resist as needed.
That said, I personally favor a twelve gauge for household defense. Lots of kick, but easy to hit a target with at least a part of the pattern and you won't have rounds penetrating through walls and maybe hitting someone in your family or the neighbor's house.

 

[Astro14]

Home invasion is not a crime perpetrated by smart mentally competent individuals. It's a high risk, low reward act. Much easier and safer to knock over a bank. They'll give up the cash readily and won't try to shoot you. As long as you have a solid escape plan, maybe using an easily stolen Kia, you stand a good chance of avoiding apprehension.
Deterrence is always better than having to actively repond and the best deterrence is probably some motion activated outdoor lighting and a large dog with a convincing bark. The dog will hear the perps long before they'd awaken you and the barking of the dog will alert you to the need to dial 911 at once as well as to prepare to resist as needed.
That said, I personally favor a twelve gauge for household defense. Lots of kick, but easy to hit a target with at least a part of the pattern and you won't have rounds penetrating through walls and maybe hitting someone in your family or the neighbor's house.

There are two persistent myths about shotgun use in home defense.

First is that the pattern size allows hits. At a typical engagement range, under 10 yards, a 12 gauge pattern with 00 buck is, at best, 2 or 3 inches. If it were bigger, it wouldn’t hit the deer at which you were aiming - right? So, the “aiming is easy because the pattern will get him” is not true. The pattern is tight at room distance. Aiming a shotgun is easier than some weapons because of length of sight radius, but aiming is still equally important. The pattern won’t make up for that. You will either hit him, or not, at room distance.

Second is that the shotgun rounds won’t penetrate drywall, so they are somehow safer than, say pistol rounds. Pistol rounds, especially hardball rounds penetrate drywall and keep going. Well, if those 12 balls of lead in 00 buck penetrate the perpetrator well enough to stop them, as a pistol round would, then they are going to penetrate drywall equally well.

Surprisingly, the 5.56mm round is likely the safest in terms of drywall penetration because the round breaks up due to high velocity when hitting drywall. It has less penetration than other projectiles. Pistol rounds, rifle rounds, and balls of lead will penetrate quite well, and take several layers of drywall to be stopped.

So, if the safety of those on the other side of the wall is paramount, consider a 5.56mm carbine over the PCC or the shotgun.

 

[LDB]

I would never choose a single-shot anything. The need for a follow-up shot is probable and the single-shot is going to be the slowest and most cumbersome to reload. It gives up too much advantage to the enemy. YMMV

 

[MParr]

The answer is whatever you can get your hands on first.
Right now, I have a .380 acp pistol sitting right next to me.
Upon retreat to the back of the house, I have several loaded and waiting.
1 AR-15
1 Ruger P-90 (.45 acp)
1 Smith and Wesson M&P Shield (9mm)
1 Smith and Wesson 638 (38 SPL)

 

[MSCH]

NEF single?

old Brazilian Single Shot.. but yeah.. had it for 45 years. it's handy as hell.
one buttstock sleeve with 5 shells in it.
can be worked blindfolded.
sits in the corner behind the drapes.
aint going to win a battle with it but for what I keep it handy for, it is perfect.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

old Brazilian Single Shot.. but yeah.. had it for 45 years. it's handy as hell.
one buttstock sleeve with 5 shells in it.
can be worked blindfolded.
sits in the corner behind the drapes.
aint going to win a battle with it but for what I keep it handy for, it is perfect.

there is not a thing wrong with a single shot, provided you can manipulate the gun. nice gun

 

[weaponoffreedom]

So there are a few things to consider with a PCC. Many have purchased them in the past few years, as "internet spec ops experts" have recommended them for home defense.
Other than the normal stuff such a reliability and accuracy.....in regards to any "longer than normal" barrel length.
Typical defensive loads, which have been touted for the last 30 years that should be used in handguns such as hollowpoints, should not be relied upon in a PCC until you have tested the load, in your gun against a proper media.
Many of these "defensive" loads were developed with the typical handgun barrel length in mind.
Many hollowpoints do not react well to higher velocities. Some will actually start to flower in mid air, degrading accuracy and terminal ballistics. So until you know the load you use will effect the target as intended, a standard pressure FMJ is the best to use in general.
This issue is widely unknown, and must be accounted for, as you favorite defensive handgun load (mine is Winchester Ranger) in your Glock 19 but not so much in you PCC. FMJ, of course is known for penetration, and in a PCC, may be over penetrative.

Shotguns on the other hand, need no real defensive loads, and basically any load will be effective at defensive ranges, one way or the other. Buckshot for instance, a close to properly placed shot will be definitive, almost 100% of the time, not so much with 9mm. There are countless stories of individuals engaged with 9mm, and survive, not so much with 00buck at 10 yards.

I have never used a PCC in a defensive role, and can see its advantages no doubt. I have, however used a shotgun, and the results are like I said above, definitive.

 

[ammolab]

Deaf is better than dead if someone is breaking in.

But it was “blind and deaf” from that 44 mag fired indoors.
Sometimes it ain’t some ONE breaking in…maybe he has a friend or two with him. Can you see them or hear them fumbling around in the garage after a shot from that cannon? Can you hear a family member screaming for help?

The last time Israel went into Lebanon they realized that fighting indoors with 5.56 carbines resulted in permanent hearing damage with each incident of gunfire.

 

[ATex7239]

,z2z

Did you read the entire story? Your post suggests you may not have.

The owners of the cycles returned home after the thieves (now 1st degrees murderers) successfully stole the scooters). The thieves were not happy with just winning the booty of the stolen scooters. The thieves apparently were upset at being challenged during the theft of the scooters. The thieves returned to the scooter's owners home and killed the scooter owner, apparently to punish home for trying to protect his property the thieves we stealing.

The theory you posted that thieves/criminals cower and flee when confronted is flawed, very flawed. The above is just one on many examples that now happens daily in the US. In the above case, the thieves not only got the "booty", but later returned to the place where the theft originated to murder the owner of the scooter for apparently even being confronted during the theft.

Your theory that criminals cower when confronted may have been valid during past times, but in today's environment criminals are many times embolden. Today's criminals often have little fear of being apprehended. That changes the entire landscape of a person protecting their family, their self, their community, and their property.

I did read it. And can refute your assertions with articles about successful armed self defense by averages Joe’s with nothing more than handguns even as small as .22 caliber.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | The Armed Citizen®

Millions of Americans use firearms to defend themselves, their families and their homes. We highlight the remarkable stories of these Armed Citizens every week.

www.americanrifleman.org

At the end of the day, we all have to make our own choices on how much or little we will arm up. And when and how we use it. There is no one size fits all approach here.

 

[Speedbird001]

Yes, the S model was designed from the get go to function fully with the 1.75" short shells which adds significantly to magazine capacity. The 1.75" also addresses the excess recoil some find objectionable with a 12 gauge. The 590S Shockwave drops to 8+1 capacity of 1.75" shells but comes out well ahead in ease of handling in tight quarters at only 26.4" overall.

Not meaning to thread drift; the Aguila 12ga mini-shells are amazing. I've heard them called "Hater Tots" . Recon they tame what can be a little too much 12ga and give back via capacity. Come in a few different flavors, though outside of teaching a little one skeet/trap the #7s probably have limited use. I like the #1/#4 Buck, too bad they are >$1.00 a round now. FWIW the Kel-Tec KSG will hold 22 +1 Minishells !




Wanna go nuts? How about a suppressed KSG or KS7 with #4 mini shells?

 

[Ws6]

One has been gaining a foothold in the market for self defense in the home, and the other is a classic. Personally I have both, which are a CZ Scorpion carbine, and a Mossberg 590a1, 20 inch by the bed.

Running and reloading a shotgun properly is hard to do, and many do not lack the skills to employ the weapon at close ranges quickly, but still hold firm that it is best for self defense.

Others opt for a PCC due to accuracy and ammo capacity.

Opinions?

I can run my benelli m4 entry just fine. Loading, select slug, support side, under nods, white light, you name it. However...

I have moved more to an 11.5" 5.56 gun as a do all. It allows me to reach across my yard and deal with a coyote as easily as cleansing my livingroom. Also, with a can, its far less obnoxious than the m4 entry even using le133.

PCCs just kindof...nah. They don't give you the projectile volume of a gauge, or the damage of the 5.56. I have zero application for a PCC.

 

[Ws6]

But it was “blind and deaf” from that 44 mag fired indoors.
Sometimes it ain’t some ONE breaking in…maybe he has a friend or two with him. Can you see them or hear them fumbling around in the garage after a shot from that cannon? Can you hear a family member screaming for help?

The last time Israel went into Lebanon they realized that fighting indoors with 5.56 carbines resulted in permanent hearing damage with each incident of gunfire.

The easy button is electronic ear pro...I have a pair in most rooms.

 

[MSCH]

there is not a thing wrong with a single shot, provided you can manipulate the gun. nice gun

I can manipulate it.. so can anyone else, provided about 30 seconds of instruction.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

I can manipulate it.. so can anyone else, provided about 30 seconds of instruction.

it might be a task under duress if one has no experience with firearm manipulation at 160 bpm. Handing little things get hard to do, but i agree, easy to learn