My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
Opinions: These small displacement turbos
- Thread starter Speak2Mountain
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
The 2.3T Mustang in the 80's was faster than the 5.0 and had to be detuned.
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
The 2.3T Mustang in the 80's was faster than the 5.0 and had to be detuned.
The future.
Now that everyone including Honda is doing it, it is going to be either Atkinson + hybrid or small displacement low boost turbo for fuel economy.
I think as long as they are tuned correctly and low boost, it should be ok for durability (water cooled, synthetic oil, drive by wire, automatic transmission all helps reduce the stress to the engine in and out of boost).
It would also goes very well with HCCI in the future too (stronger internals, running richer on boost and leaner on HCCI).
Now that everyone including Honda is doing it, it is going to be either Atkinson + hybrid or small displacement low boost turbo for fuel economy.
I think as long as they are tuned correctly and low boost, it should be ok for durability (water cooled, synthetic oil, drive by wire, automatic transmission all helps reduce the stress to the engine in and out of boost).
It would also goes very well with HCCI in the future too (stronger internals, running richer on boost and leaner on HCCI).
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
One just couples that additional displacement with boost
See: Hellcat
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
One just couples that additional displacement with boost
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
The 2.3T Mustang in the 80's was faster than the 5.0 and had to be detuned.
I used to autocross and time-trial against Mustang SVO's in the mid-late-80's in my '85 Pontiac Sunbird turbo.
I wasn't afraid of them.
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
The 2.3T Mustang in the 80's was faster than the 5.0 and had to be detuned.
I used to autocross and time-trial against Mustang SVO's in the mid-late-80's in my '85 Pontiac Sunbird turbo.
I wasn't afraid of them.
Last edited:
Yeah, I think I'd rather have the GN
I have a Hyundai Tuscon with the 1.6 turbo and AWD. I run mid grade gas and 5W-30 synthetic. Lots of power and sporty, virtually no turbo lag and 34 mpg on highway. 12 years ago I said I would never own a Hyundai let alone a Turbo one. It is a great car.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Yeah, I think I'd rather have the GN
+1 GNs are beautiful, unlike the [censored] designs of today. I'll take an 80s Caprice any day of the week over today's designs. Drop in a nice turbo 383 and you're GTG!
Yeah, I think I'd rather have the GN
+1 GNs are beautiful, unlike the [censored] designs of today. I'll take an 80s Caprice any day of the week over today's designs. Drop in a nice turbo 383 and you're GTG!
Last edited:
wemay
Site Donor 2023
We're in the future and i love our 2.0T-GDi Santa Fe. That thing hauls butt and has never complained in 100+K miles. It's actually seen 87 octane and even Convl oil at times. Go figure.
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Polaris RZR and Can-Am both offering below 1000cc engines turbocharged sidebysides. Its the future of offroading.
I will probably buy the new RZR S turbo. $25K no ac, no heat, no windshield or back glass, half a door, no stereo..UGG.
- Agreed, smaller displacement with higher tech that is now turbos, DI and Hybrid will continue to become the new normal.
- Not to side track, but I don't get these off road side by sides or even the street legal 3 wheel "Motorcycle" Can-Am things... Assuming we not talking about a physical handicap scenario. Off Road, if you had $25k to spend I think you could get a pretty bad [censored] jeep. On Road, a miata or similar.
Polaris RZR and Can-Am both offering below 1000cc engines turbocharged sidebysides. Its the future of offroading.
I will probably buy the new RZR S turbo. $25K no ac, no heat, no windshield or back glass, half a door, no stereo..UGG.
- Agreed, smaller displacement with higher tech that is now turbos, DI and Hybrid will continue to become the new normal.
- Not to side track, but I don't get these off road side by sides or even the street legal 3 wheel "Motorcycle" Can-Am things... Assuming we not talking about a physical handicap scenario. Off Road, if you had $25k to spend I think you could get a pretty bad [censored] jeep. On Road, a miata or similar.
Originally Posted By: FermeLaPorte
Japan has been doing small displacement turboes for a long time. However, the American public will do 7k or 10k OCIs on the thinnest oil possible and that will ruin the engines.
Fixed it for you
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
How about a 2017 5.0? The 1.8T in my Jetta makes more hp than a 16V GTI but it is also 20 years newer. Why even post this?
Originally Posted By: Speedbird001
- Not to side track, but I don't get these off road side by sides or even the street legal 3 wheel "Motorcycle" Can-Am things... Assuming we not talking about a physical handicap scenario. Off Road, if you had $25k to spend I think you could get a pretty bad [censored] jeep. On Road, a miata or similar.
Miatas are not cheap, they have a Honda/Toyota premium where everyone thinks their NA Miata with a ripped top is worth 10k.
Of course you can build an insane car for cheaper than buying one, but 99% of people do not have the ability to undertake such a project. It will also be significantly less reliable and have awful resale even when parted out.
Japan has been doing small displacement turboes for a long time. However, the American public will do 7k or 10k OCIs on the thinnest oil possible and that will ruin the engines.
Fixed it for you
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
How about a 2017 5.0? The 1.8T in my Jetta makes more hp than a 16V GTI but it is also 20 years newer. Why even post this?
Originally Posted By: Speedbird001
- Not to side track, but I don't get these off road side by sides or even the street legal 3 wheel "Motorcycle" Can-Am things... Assuming we not talking about a physical handicap scenario. Off Road, if you had $25k to spend I think you could get a pretty bad [censored] jeep. On Road, a miata or similar.
Miatas are not cheap, they have a Honda/Toyota premium where everyone thinks their NA Miata with a ripped top is worth 10k.
Of course you can build an insane car for cheaper than buying one, but 99% of people do not have the ability to undertake such a project. It will also be significantly less reliable and have awful resale even when parted out.
Smaller Turbo = less heat and faster spool up; larger Turbo = more power but possible lag and increased heat underhood.
Biggest problem with non-OEM turbos is exhaust routing and weld quality of the exhaust. You need an excellent welder to insure no cracks / failure of the exhaust interface with the turbo. Heating of the intake air can be an issue, so an intercooler is usually fitted, but that can be reasonably small because you don't need 6,000 RPM power at city traffic speeds, and airflow across the intercooler is usually decent at highway speeds.
Generally some form of aftermarket ECU will be needed.
Not all engines are suitable for a turbo installation as pistons and valves may need replacement, and different cam timing is often recommended.
Biggest problem with non-OEM turbos is exhaust routing and weld quality of the exhaust. You need an excellent welder to insure no cracks / failure of the exhaust interface with the turbo. Heating of the intake air can be an issue, so an intercooler is usually fitted, but that can be reasonably small because you don't need 6,000 RPM power at city traffic speeds, and airflow across the intercooler is usually decent at highway speeds.
Generally some form of aftermarket ECU will be needed.
Not all engines are suitable for a turbo installation as pistons and valves may need replacement, and different cam timing is often recommended.
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
Why even post this?
Maybe I could talk a little more slow for you?
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
Why even post this?
Maybe I could talk a little more slow for you?
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2010
- Messages
- 9,807
Though my GLC with its 3.0L may be considered a "big block" by today's standards of uber small engines, I have to say it is one of the most fun cars I have driven in the past several years. Twin turbo FTW!
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
TGDI with an extra side of LSPI
Turbo, DI, regular gas, and 0w20 do not play well together, people!
They should make the turbos only operate above a certain rpm threshold, only when the engine is warm, and there should be a turbo timer. That might take care of the LSPI. You don't need the turbos at parking lot speeds.
You do know that today’s turbos are mostly the variable geometry type but then again I guess you didn’t know this?
TGDI with an extra side of LSPI
Turbo, DI, regular gas, and 0w20 do not play well together, people!
They should make the turbos only operate above a certain rpm threshold, only when the engine is warm, and there should be a turbo timer. That might take care of the LSPI. You don't need the turbos at parking lot speeds.
You do know that today’s turbos are mostly the variable geometry type but then again I guess you didn’t know this?
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
Why even post this?
Maybe I could talk a little more slow for you?
I don’t think it would help.
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
Why even post this?
Maybe I could talk a little more slow for you?
I don’t think it would help.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
Why even post this?
Maybe I could talk a little more slow for you?
I don’t think it would help.
Dang, two sick burns! You never answered my question, but you certainly deleted it when you were quoting, didn't you?
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
My VW Jetta with the 1.4T makes more horsepower than a 70s Mustang with a 302W. "There's no replacement for displacement" is over.
Why even post this?
Maybe I could talk a little more slow for you?
I don’t think it would help.
Dang, two sick burns! You never answered my question, but you certainly deleted it when you were quoting, didn't you?
New?
1985 SAAB 900T: 2L, 4-cylinder, turbocharged, 5-speed, 165 HP.
1998 Volvo V70 T5: 2.3L, straight 5, turbocharged, 4-speed auto, 255 HP.
The Swedes have been doing this combination for decades now.....
1985 SAAB 900T: 2L, 4-cylinder, turbocharged, 5-speed, 165 HP.
1998 Volvo V70 T5: 2.3L, straight 5, turbocharged, 4-speed auto, 255 HP.
The Swedes have been doing this combination for decades now.....
- Status
