Oil for B58 Ineos Grenadier

[chris719]

Mobil 1™ FS 0W-40| Mobil™

Mobil 1™ FS 0W-40 motor oil is the result of decades of collaborative development with major car manufacturers and the application of the latest lubrication technology. It helps provide unsurpassed performance under very demanding driving conditions.

www.mobil.com

Are you say M1 hasn't launch the SP formula in the US market?

Castrol is the part of your sentence I quoted. I didn’t realize it was so similar to the preceding one, oops.

The Castrol 0w30 is the only one with LL01 now as edy mentioned. I’m running the SP M1 now and it said LL01 on the bottles.

 

[bigjl]

That was due to US fuel sulfur levels which were like 50-80ppm but in Jan 2018 (I think) they are now down to 10ppm and BMW allows it. All-in-all I believe the LL01 and LL04 specs have been removed from their newer B58 models simply because of CAFE/EPA so they're moving to some LL-17FE. BMW did update the LL01 and LL04 in 2017 to have higher corrosion resistance and lubricity requirements specific for the timing chain. So LL04 now in the US "SHOULD" (per my limited knowledge) be the spec to aim for on this motor. I also think because of the updated specs the 0w oils lost their LL01/LL04 spec. I'm trying to see if I can find one right now but not seeing it. I'm wondering if there's any difference between Pennzoil Platinum Euro - L 5w30 and Quaker State Euro 5w40. Also if there are any US specs that equal LL01 or LL04. I remember with the JLR spec on my 3.0 diesel it matched the Ford spec for the 3.0 powerstroke so it was much easier just to grab ford oil.

Define newer?

Post LCi 745Le is LL04.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Define newer?

Post LCi 745Le is LL04.

BMW went so far to break out suitable oils based on revisions of the B-series. Of course we're not sure which revision the OP is receiving.

 

[edyvw]

Define newer?

Post LCi 745Le is LL04.

2009 BMW moved gasoline engines in Europe to LL04 (only EU, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Norway and few other small countries). Rest of the world stayed LL01.

 

[Cary]

Just my two cents. Assuming the cooling works the same in the Grenadier as in BMW's implementation, the oil temps are held up at about 240F in normal operation, but when temperatures get high, they actually drop to about 210F as BMW seems to open the oil cooler to help in cooling the entire system. I have observed this in my son's X3 3.5i, as well as my wife's, and my friend that has one and lives in Houston has observed the same thing. (See attached photo from the extreme heat wave in Southern California in September 2020). As such, I don't believe that you need to worry about the oil thinning out too much, unless you are seeing higher oil temps in actual operation.

Personally, I would lean towards the Mobil 1 0w-30 ESP with its BMW LL-04/MB 229.51/52 and Porsche C30/VW504.00/507.00 approvals. While I appreciate that BMW doesn't list LL-04 as approved, given the elimination of sulfur in the US fuel, this is not an issue. As others have pointed out, BMW is extremely slow to update their oil information. I recall it took BMW NA about 10 years to recognize that LL98 and then LL01 even existed.

Personally, given the weight and aerodynamics of the vehicle, I would be consider whether the 10,000 mile oil interval that BMW specs for the B58 should be shortened down to 7,500 miles or so to account for the additional fuel and stress the engine will see in ordinary use.

 

[Marcozi]

If money is no object, try Ravenol VMP 5W30. I've attached the UOA.

 

[edyvw]

Just my two cents. Assuming the cooling works the same in the Grenadier as in BMW's implementation, the oil temps are held up at about 240F in normal operation, but when temperatures get high, they actually drop to about 210F as BMW seems to open the oil cooler to help in cooling the entire system. I have observed this in my son's X3 3.5i, as well as my wife's, and my friend that has one and lives in Houston has observed the same thing. (See attached photo from the extreme heat wave in Southern California in September 2020). As such, I don't believe that you need to worry about the oil thinning out too much, unless you are seeing higher oil temps in actual operation.

Personally, I would lean towards the Mobil 1 0w-30 ESP with its BMW LL-04/MB 229.51/52 and Porsche C30/VW504.00/507.00 approvals. While I appreciate that BMW doesn't list LL-04 as approved, given the elimination of sulfur in the US fuel, this is not an issue. As others have pointed out, BMW is extremely slow to update their oil information. I recall it took BMW NA about 10 years to recognize that LL98 and then LL01 even existed.

Personally, given the weight and aerodynamics of the vehicle, I would be consider whether the 10,000 mile oil interval that BMW specs for the B58 should be shortened down to 7,500 miles or so to account for the additional fuel and stress the engine will see in ordinary use.

View attachment 192342

Actually it doesn’t work that way.
Your son’s N55 has 4 different temperature settings. It has electric water pump that depending on driving profile either keeps temperature high (hwy driving) or low (performance, track etc). In case it needs additional cooling, water pump will enter high effectiveness mode to lower temperature.
The oil cooling on N55 depends on two things:
1. N55 equipped with brick style heat exchanger is cooling oil using coolant. It is not effective as radiator type oil cooler, BUT it warms up oil faster as coolant warms up faster.
2. If it is equipped with radiator style oil cooler (in that case no brick style heat exchanger), there is thermostat attached to oil filter housing that has two oil lines leading toward cooler. It opens at 110c and it is strictly mechanical.

B58 has vastly different cooling. First, it has two cooling systems, one for engine, another for intercooler.
Water pump is mechanical but thermostat is electric where DME monitors need of the engine. It has both brick style heat exchanger and radiator type oil cooler or two (M sport and S58).
So, yes, the idea is similar between N55 and B58, but execution in B generation is far more complex.

 

[Cary]

Actually it doesn’t work that way.
Your son’s N55 has 4 different temperature settings. It has electric water pump that depending on driving profile either keeps temperature high (hwy driving) or low (performance, track etc). In case it needs additional cooling, water pump will enter high effectiveness mode to lower temperature.
The oil cooling on N55 depends on two things:
1. N55 equipped with brick style heat exchanger is cooling oil using coolant. It is not effective as radiator type oil cooler, BUT it warms up oil faster as coolant warms up faster.
2. If it is equipped with radiator style oil cooler (in that case no brick style heat exchanger), there is thermostat attached to oil filter housing that has two oil lines leading toward cooler. It opens at 110c and it is strictly mechanical.

B58 has vastly different cooling. First, it has two cooling systems, one for engine, another for intercooler.
Water pump is mechanical but thermostat is electric where DME monitors need of the engine. It has both brick style heat exchanger and radiator type oil cooler or two (M sport and S58).
So, yes, the idea is similar between N55 and B58, but execution in B generation is far more complex.

Thanks. Good info. Glad to see they went back to the mechanical water pumps.

 

[edyvw]

Thanks. Good info. Glad to see they went back to the mechanical water pumps.

I am not sure they will gain in longevity. They also added more complexity. Kind of conflicted whether it is good or not.

 

[bigjl]

BMW went so far to break out suitable oils based on revisions of the B-series. Of course we're not sure which revision the OP is receiving.

A quick scan shows the B58 with GPF is never specced with any LL01.

I very much doubt any American or European suppled BMW with a B58 won’t have a GPF

I haven’t seen any high end petrol vehicle without a GPF since late 2017/2018

I am not interested enough to look into which B58 engined vehicles might not have a GPF or which market they might be sold.

Because I don’t care.

Use an LL04 oil, if you want to run 0w30 then do so, if you refer 0w40 then do that, if you want 5w40 then guess what?

Yup, you run that.

The engine will be find on any LL04.

The good thing is if your vehicle doesn’t have a GPF then it will run LL04 aswell

Win win

 

[bigjl]

Just my two cents. Assuming the cooling works the same in the Grenadier as in BMW's implementation, the oil temps are held up at about 240F in normal operation, but when temperatures get high, they actually drop to about 210F as BMW seems to open the oil cooler to help in cooling the entire system. I have observed this in my son's X3 3.5i, as well as my wife's, and my friend that has one and lives in Houston has observed the same thing. (See attached photo from the extreme heat wave in Southern California in September 2020). As such, I don't believe that you need to worry about the oil thinning out too much, unless you are seeing higher oil temps in actual operation.

Personally, I would lean towards the Mobil 1 0w-30 ESP with its BMW LL-04/MB 229.51/52 and Porsche C30/VW504.00/507.00 approvals. While I appreciate that BMW doesn't list LL-04 as approved, given the elimination of sulfur in the US fuel, this is not an issue. As others have pointed out, BMW is extremely slow to update their oil information. I recall it took BMW NA about 10 years to recognize that LL98 and then LL01 even existed.

Personally, given the weight and aerodynamics of the vehicle, I would be consider whether the 10,000 mile oil interval that BMW specs for the B58 should be shortened down to 7,500 miles or so to account for the additional fuel and stress the engine will see in ordinary use.

View attachment 192342

BMW specify up to 20k on the B58, I would suggest 10k is just fine.

7.5k is surely overkill

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

A quick scan shows the B58 with GPF is never specced with any LL01.

I very much doubt any American or European suppled BMW with a B58 won’t have a GPF

I haven’t seen any high end petrol vehicle without a GPF since late 2017/2018

I am not interested enough to look into which B58 engined vehicles might not have a GPF or which market they might be sold.

Because I don’t care.

Use an LL04 oil, if you want to run 0w30 then do so, if you refer 0w40 then do that, if you want 5w40 then guess what?

Yup, you run that.

The engine will be find on any LL04.

The good thing is if your vehicle doesn’t have a GPF then it will run LL04 aswell

Win win

US spec B58's don't have GPF but did you look at the changes made for the latest revision of the B58? BMW pours LL01FE or the 0w20/0w16.

 

[kschachn]

US spec B58's don't have GPF but did you look at the changes made for the latest revision of the B58? BMW pours LL01FE or the 0w20/0w16.

Changes that would necessitate the use of a lower viscosity oil? What kind of changes were made?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Changes that would necessitate the use of a lower viscosity oil? What kind of changes were made?

I'm not sure. They did switch to electronic solenoids for the VVT system. In any case look at my post (#43) and you'll see where they pulled the 3.5 HTHS oils from the most recent revisions of the B58 and others.

 

[edyvw]

A quick scan shows the B58 with GPF is never specced with any LL01.

I very much doubt any American or European suppled BMW with a B58 won’t have a GPF

I haven’t seen any high end petrol vehicle without a GPF since late 2017/2018

I am not interested enough to look into which B58 engined vehicles might not have a GPF or which market they might be sold.

Because I don’t care.

Use an LL04 oil, if you want to run 0w30 then do so, if you refer 0w40 then do that, if you want 5w40 then guess what?

Yup, you run that.

The engine will be find on any LL04.

The good thing is if your vehicle doesn’t have a GPF then it will run LL04 aswell

Win win

B58 technically can use LL01 or LL04. EU has GPF while the US does nit due to different emissions standards. BMW is not going to use GPF if it is not necessary.
So yes in EU, LL04 is going, in US it can be either and there are markets with fuel that is rich in sulfur and where LL01 is required.

 

[edyvw]

I'm not sure. They did switch to electronic solenoids for the VVT system. In any case look at my post (#43) and you'll see where they pulled the 3.5 HTHS oils from the most recent revisions of the B58 and others.

No changes will forbid using thicker oil. They just streamlined their own logistics.

 

[kschachn]

No changes will forbid using thicker oil. They just streamlined their own logistics.

True this. And made it easier to comply with fuel economy requirements while preventing excessive wear, however that may be defined.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

No changes will forbid using thicker oil. They just streamlined their own logistics.

Perhaps that's true but you know when this question pops up and they show the list which does not have LL01/LL04 for their engine they're going to question. They still show LL01FE which arguably addresses those regions which do not have ULSG.

 

[edyvw]

Perhaps that's true but you know when this question pops up and they show the list which does not have LL01/LL04 for their engine they're going to question. They still show LL01FE which arguably addresses those regions which do not have ULSG.

People still ask questions whether the Earth is round or flat. Who cares.

 

[chris719]

A quick scan shows the B58 with GPF is never specced with any LL01.

I very much doubt any American or European suppled BMW with a B58 won’t have a GPF

I haven’t seen any high end petrol vehicle without a GPF since late 2017/2018

I am not interested enough to look into which B58 engined vehicles might not have a GPF or which market they might be sold.

Because I don’t care.

Why is it that you're so confidently wrong and proud of it? Try doing a quick Google search before posting. North American BMWs almost 100% do not have GPF/OPF even today. I say almost because there might be one or two exceptions. 2023 BMW S58 gets filled with LL-01FE in the US. My father has a 2022 M340i B58 TU with no OPF.