Oil consumption getting worse!!

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Upper Engine Decarbonization

There are a number of competing techniques you can use to try to clean upper-engine deposits that might be causing excessive oil consumption. Here are my two favorites:
1. A thorough injector cleaning, using a MotorVac or similar apparatus, coupled with cleaning the throttle body and induction system. (I like BG spray induction and throttle body cleaner Part No. 406 for this.) At the end, add a can of “5-minute motor flush” to the oil, run for the recommended time interval, then change the oil to remove the crud you’ve just washed into it. Clear any codes you may have set and reset adaptive fuel and throttle trims, if applicable. Take a test drive, and monitor trims.
2. An overnight soak with GM’s “X-66” or a similar product. Prepare the vehicle by first warming it to normal operating temperature, then park it on level ground outside. The area underneath the engine compartment may get pretty contaminated, so an absorbent mat, oil-dry or even used cardboard is recommended to help catch and control any runoff or contamination. I like to spray or drizzle a small amount of the cleaner through the throttle body, then dump in a bunch to flood the engine. (Be careful: Liquids are incompressible, so you can bend a rod if you get too carried away!)
Now remove the spark plugs and disable the fuel and ignition systems. Carefully pour some of the cleaner into each plug hole using a narrow funnel. Use the crankshaft pulley bolt to slowly turn the motor through two complete revolutions, pausing along the way to add more cleaner into each plug hole as needed. Cover the engine to prevent anything from falling into the holes, then close the hood and wait until the next day.
Overnight, the solvent will soften up even hardened carbon deposits. The next day, remove the cover, then slowly turn the engine through at least two complete revolutions by hand to allow the remaining liquid cleaner to be pushed out through the plug holes onto the mat, oil-dry or cardboard.
Now you can use a remote starter button, or crank the engine with the key for 15 to 30 seconds. Reinstall or replace the plugs, reenable the fuel and ignition systems, then start the engine. (You may have to hold the accelerator pedal down somewhat if you still have some solvent flooding the engine.) A large cloud of smoke out of the tailpipe is normal, and should clear up after a few minutes of running.
Allow the engine to warm up to normal operating temperature. Clean up your oil-dry or cardboard, then add a can of “5-minute motor flush” to the oil, run for the recommended time interval, then change the oil to remove the crud you’ve just washed into it. Clear any codes you may have set, reset adaptive fuel and throttle trims, if applicable, and test drive. If you wound up with some solvent on the underside of the hood, be sure to wipe it down before it strips off the paint. (Don’t ask me how I know!) Neutralize and remove any remaining solvent with a soap & water solution.
If your inspection reveals a lot of oil sludge as well, you might try substituting one quart of ATF for some of the crankcase oil. Its higher detergent levels may help keep things a bit cleaner, but be sure to explain to your customer the importance of changing it out well within 3000 miles, as the detergent loses its effectiveness. Most customers will comply with this once they understand the rationale. You can continue this substitution at each change interval indefinitely.
BG Products also offers the Squid Combustion Chamber Decarbonizing System (Part Nos. 9404 and 9408) to rotate the engine incrementally—essentially by “bumping” the starter motor—automatically during the clean-soak phase. Its apparatus includes an octopus configuration that allows the solvent to be pushed back into a central reservoir as the pistons rise, then return to the combustion chamber as they fall. Because of its ability to rotate the engine on demand, this system can drastically cut the time needed for a thorough cleaning, but the ultimate time constraints stem from the basic chemistry involved, though, so don’t try to hurry things too much!

And This.
Motor Magazine 2014
 
Originally Posted By: mmmmike
Currently using 5w30.


Would that be M1 5W-30 ?
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Koz1
Upper Engine Decarbonization

There are a number of competing techniques you can use to try to clean upper-engine deposits that might be causing excessive oil consumption. Here are my two favorites:
1. A thorough injector cleaning, using a MotorVac or similar apparatus, coupled with cleaning the throttle body and induction system. (I like BG spray induction and throttle body cleaner Part No. 406 for this.) At the end, add a can of “5-minute motor flush” to the oil, run for the recommended time interval, then change the oil to remove the crud you’ve just washed into it. Clear any codes you may have set and reset adaptive fuel and throttle trims, if applicable. Take a test drive, and monitor trims.
2. An overnight soak with GM’s “X-66” or a similar product. Prepare the vehicle by first warming it to normal operating temperature, then park it on level ground outside. The area underneath the engine compartment may get pretty contaminated, so an absorbent mat, oil-dry or even used cardboard is recommended to help catch and control any runoff or contamination. I like to spray or drizzle a small amount of the cleaner through the throttle body, then dump in a bunch to flood the engine. (Be careful: Liquids are incompressible, so you can bend a rod if you get too carried away!)
Now remove the spark plugs and disable the fuel and ignition systems. Carefully pour some of the cleaner into each plug hole using a narrow funnel. Use the crankshaft pulley bolt to slowly turn the motor through two complete revolutions, pausing along the way to add more cleaner into each plug hole as needed. Cover the engine to prevent anything from falling into the holes, then close the hood and wait until the next day.
Overnight, the solvent will soften up even hardened carbon deposits. The next day, remove the cover, then slowly turn the engine through at least two complete revolutions by hand to allow the remaining liquid cleaner to be pushed out through the plug holes onto the mat, oil-dry or cardboard.
Now you can use a remote starter button, or crank the engine with the key for 15 to 30 seconds. Reinstall or replace the plugs, reenable the fuel and ignition systems, then start the engine. (You may have to hold the accelerator pedal down somewhat if you still have some solvent flooding the engine.) A large cloud of smoke out of the tailpipe is normal, and should clear up after a few minutes of running.
Allow the engine to warm up to normal operating temperature. Clean up your oil-dry or cardboard, then add a can of “5-minute motor flush” to the oil, run for the recommended time interval, then change the oil to remove the crud you’ve just washed into it. Clear any codes you may have set, reset adaptive fuel and throttle trims, if applicable, and test drive. If you wound up with some solvent on the underside of the hood, be sure to wipe it down before it strips off the paint. (Don’t ask me how I know!) Neutralize and remove any remaining solvent with a soap & water solution.
If your inspection reveals a lot of oil sludge as well, you might try substituting one quart of ATF for some of the crankcase oil. Its higher detergent levels may help keep things a bit cleaner, but be sure to explain to your customer the importance of changing it out well within 3000 miles, as the detergent loses its effectiveness. Most customers will comply with this once they understand the rationale. You can continue this substitution at each change interval indefinitely.
BG Products also offers the Squid Combustion Chamber Decarbonizing System (Part Nos. 9404 and 9408) to rotate the engine incrementally—essentially by “bumping” the starter motor—automatically during the clean-soak phase. Its apparatus includes an octopus configuration that allows the solvent to be pushed back into a central reservoir as the pistons rise, then return to the combustion chamber as they fall. Because of its ability to rotate the engine on demand, this system can drastically cut the time needed for a thorough cleaning, but the ultimate time constraints stem from the basic chemistry involved, though, so don’t try to hurry things too much!

And This.
Motor Magazine 2014



Higher detergent in tranny fluid?

That absurdity puts the entire comment in the toilet and loses any credibility.


Op

You've tried and tried soaks and it's not helping. So it's possible the rings are worn and no soak is going to help it.

Try mos2. You can buy it at Napa. It will help the consumption. It takes about 500 miles to achieve full effect and costs 8 bucks a can.
At this point you've tried pretty much everything as far as cleaning the rings and for 8 bucks you don't have anything to lose.
Mos2 works really well in worn engines. Use the whole can.
 
Sounds like you have tried everything. Try using the Sea Foam again. This time feed it in to stall it out and let it sit for a while.Then take it out on a run. Otherwise, at 190 k, you are startng to deal with worn rings,valve guides or seals. 1500 miles/qt is not that bad and I would just keep it filled. At this point, it is not worth tearing apart an engine since all that make up oil will never come close to the expense of repairing.
 
Any oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil?


Originally Posted By: Jimzz
It has 190k, its [likely to] use some oil.

Just use a high mileage 10w30 and top off as needed.


Agreed, changing to a HM oil would likely help.


Originally Posted By: Jimzz

And stop using the additives/quick fixs. Save the money for topping off and enjoy the car as is.


+1000 I was frankly amazed at the number and variety of "fix its" you have poured into your engine!!!! Quit wasting your money on that stuff and run it without the cleaners/thinners/whatever for a couple of OCIs and see how it is doing.
 
We have a Toyota with identical mileage from the same vintage and it also consumes at a rate of 1 quart per 2000 miles.

I have found that reducing my speeds on the highway helped a bit with the lower RPM's.

I refuse to use a HM oil because my motor is completely clean and dry without any leaks.
 
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: mmmmike


I was warned against thicker oils by a trusted mechanic since it mess with stuff...



Messes with stuff... ???

Sorry, you said "trusted..." right...?

Cheapest experiment you can do... try a thicker oil... it might help. THEN dig deeper... always start cheap first.



Long ago, engines used soft babbitt bearings that would wear and lower oil pressure. Thicker oil would temporarily raise the pressure and perhaps caused the myth. Today this is not a problem. Increasing oil pressure sends more oil to the top end of the engine. This will increase oil on the valve guide seals and may increase consumption.

In an engine with sludge buildup, drain back holes may be partially blocked. Thicker oil will have a more difficult time returning to the oil pan. If oil in the pan runs low, the engine may burn up. Thicker oil will NOT help oil consumption and may make it worse.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mmmmike

Long ago, engines used soft babbitt bearings that would wear and lower oil pressure.


Long ago? It has only been in the last one or two decades where the switch to bi-metal bearings happened. And even then, that's only some manufacturers and some applications.

Originally Posted By: mmmmike
Thicker oil would temporarily raise the pressure and perhaps caused the myth.


What myth are we talking about? I've never heard that thicker oil "messes with stuff" either.

Originally Posted By: mmmmike
Today this is not a problem. Increasing oil pressure sends more oil to the top end of the engine. This will increase oil on the valve guide seals and may increase consumption.


Oil pressure, on any engine with a positive displacement oil pump is simply a measure of resistance to flow. The pump displaces the same volume of oil if it is 0w-20 or 20w-50 provided the relief is closed.

When the pressure gets high enough and the relief is OPEN, LESS oil is going through the system so reality, depending on our variables here, may actually be the opposite of your posit
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: mmmmike
In an engine with sludge buildup, drain back holes may be partially blocked. Thicker oil will have a more difficult time returning to the oil pan. If oil in the pan runs low, the engine may burn up. Thicker oil will NOT help oil consumption and may make it worse.


By that metric, the same is going to happen when an engine is cold and the oil is hundreds, sometimes THOUSANDS of times heavier than when it is hot. If you've got an engine that is sludged up enough that the drainback holes are plugged, you've got bigger issues than viscosity choice, LOL
smile.gif
 
Haven't read the whole thread but I would like to point out few things about excessive oil consumption. Your car is at 190k, it's nothing unusual for engine that old to consume oil. Still oil consumption is not god for any engine or your wallet.
PCV will get clogged sooner.
Throttle body will get dirty sooner.
Intake valves and chamber will have more carbon deposits, so will spark plugs. This alone can lead to poorly working engine.
Catalyst converter will have shorter life.
You have to check oil level more often.

You've mentioned that you tried Seafoam to clean piston rings and it didn't worked. That's because they are little worn, not clogged.
Thicker oil will reduce oil consumption and it's easiest way to deal with.
 
Using a heavier weight oil will not work. I tried this on my 02 Suzuki Aerio with 170K on it. Same oil consumption as what you are experiencing. The result was more oil consumption.

Best result I've had so far is going with a HM oil of proper weight. Next is too pull the engine out and rebuild it.
 
Originally Posted By: mmmmike
Heck I'm even half tempted to do a Berryman's Chem Dip soak with an immediate oil change since that is actually a parts soak!!
Do a piston soak with Berryman B-12 Chemtool. If the rings are stuck/sticking, this will definitely clean the piston lands. Fill the cylinders and let it sit overnight. You will need to change the oil immediately after and probably again within 500 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: mmmmike

Long ago, engines used soft babbitt bearings that would wear and lower oil pressure.


Long ago? It has only been in the last one or two decades where the switch to bi-metal bearings happened. And even then, that's only some manufacturers and some applications.

Originally Posted By: mmmmike
Thicker oil would temporarily raise the pressure and perhaps caused the myth.


What myth are we talking about? I've never heard that thicker oil "messes with stuff" either.

Originally Posted By: mmmmike
Today this is not a problem. Increasing oil pressure sends more oil to the top end of the engine. This will increase oil on the valve guide seals and may increase consumption.


Oil pressure, on any engine with a positive displacement oil pump is simply a measure of resistance to flow. The pump displaces the same volume of oil if it is 0w-20 or 20w-50 provided the relief is closed.

When the pressure gets high enough and the relief is OPEN, LESS oil is going through the system so reality, depending on our variables here, may actually be the opposite of your posit
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: mmmmike
In an engine with sludge buildup, drain back holes may be partially blocked. Thicker oil will have a more difficult time returning to the oil pan. If oil in the pan runs low, the engine may burn up. Thicker oil will NOT help oil consumption and may make it worse.


By that metric, the same is going to happen when an engine is cold and the oil is hundreds, sometimes THOUSANDS of times heavier than when it is hot. If you've got an engine that is sludged up enough that the drainback holes are plugged, you've got bigger issues than viscosity choice, LOL
smile.gif



"other stuff" - a mechanic had this issue, went to heavier oil and within a few hundred miles went back to the right weight. the heavier weight actually messed with his variable timing gear.

as noted below another user tried heavier weight and noticed increased consumption.

it is def not the silver bullet but might be worth a try. throwing thicker oil isn't a blanket solution.

i'm inclined to try it for a cycle or two to see if it works in my situation.

i'm also considering an oil separator simply to avoid burning the consumed oil in the chamber. would be better all around not to burn it and simply dispose of it as it accumulates.
 
Originally Posted By: mmmmike

"other stuff" - a mechanic had this issue, went to heavier oil and within a few hundred miles went back to the right weight. the heavier weight actually messed with his variable timing gear.


That's odd because a change in ambient temperature can cause a much greater change in viscosity than a change between grades at a given temp. BMW has spec'd both 5w-30 and 10w-60 for the same VCT systems.

Originally Posted By: mmmmike
as noted below another user tried heavier weight and noticed increased consumption.

it is def not the silver bullet but might be worth a try. throwing thicker oil isn't a blanket solution.

i'm inclined to try it for a cycle or two to see if it works in my situation.


Yup, it is nothing but a possible bandaide. Even changing between brands of a given grade can yield massively different results. My Expedition drinks AMSOIL AZO 0w-30 like it is bourbon, whilst it won't consume any M1 AFE 0w-30 over the same OCI.

Originally Posted By: mmmmike
i'm also considering an oil separator simply to avoid burning the consumed oil in the chamber. would be better all around not to burn it and simply dispose of it as it accumulates.


If you have evidence in your PCV plumbing that there is oil ingress through this area, then yes, it is worth a shot. If you don't, it probably won't do much.

Best of luck!
 
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