No More Forester XT?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: wag123

There isn't any reason why this new engine technology couldn't be adapted to Subaru's boxer engines. In fact, using this technology in Subaru's boxer could make the engines even more powerful and efficient than the other inline 4cyl engines that Toyota and Mazda manufacture.



Toyota is taking a laisez-faire approach with Subaru - instead of taking over Subaru management with drones from Toyota City, they're letting Subie do their own thing. Compared with GM's strongarming of Subaru, it's working out - at least they haven't dropped to the same F&F and cheapness as regular Toyota, Akio Toyoda and Co. is still hellbent on his Lexus-first policy at the family business. Let Toyota build their appliances and Uber rigs(Camry and Prius), Subaru might be norm-core now but they're still some redeeming value about them.

Nissan had the most impact on Subaru - and it still shows today. You'd think there would be more Denso and Aisin stuff under the hood of a modern Subie. Back in the 1980s-mid 1990s, there was commonality between the two, except for engine and chassis differences.

IMO Toyota is taking a smart approach with Subaru. Subaru is a well-run and profitable company with VERY loyal customers, their customer retention rate is the highest in the industry. They can easily sell everything they manufacture without having to resort to massive incentives. Toyota is taking a mostly hands-off approach, which is something I agree with. Why fix something that ain't broke? Toyota's purchase of controlling interest in Subaru after GM divested themselves was a MAJOR blessing for Subaru. They desperately needed some financial and technical support (after getting nothing from GM for many years) because their products needed updating (they were slowly falling behind the rest of the industry), which they have done, and VERY successfully I should add. You could begin to see the results of this in 2008 and 2009 when the rest of the auto industry was in the toilet, Subaru was the ONLY auto manufacturer that increased sales in 2008 and posted a double digit sales increase in 2009. Their sales have tripled in the last 10 years and their worldwide market share has gone from 1.15% to 3.76% during this time period. They would not been able to increase production this much without Toyota's help. I would think that Toyota must be ecstatic with this performance and is ample reason to not mess with them.
Regarding the adoption of Mazda's Skyactiv technology in Subaru engines, perhaps there is something in the Toyota/Mazda agreement that prevents this from happening, or, perhaps it is in-the-works and has not been introduced yet.
 
Last edited:
+1
Taking the unique aspects out of Subaru vehicles would be a terrible mistake, even if it would result in lower build costs.
The Forester has superior AWD capability as compared to the Toyota and Honda offerings as well as more ground clearance and longer suspension travel, yielding a very compliant ride. Horizontally opposed engines are also a part of Subaru design heritage going back nearly fifty years and they've typically been tough engines.
The current NA 2.5/CVT combo is pretty strong as well and yields class leading fuel economy.
Personally, I'm happy that Toyota has left Subaru alone, not that their small ownership stake would give them anything like control anyway.
We've liked our Subies and have no real use for Toyotas and many Subaru owners and buyers probably think the same.
If we'd wanted a RAV4 we'd have bought one. We surely don't need a Toyota CUV badged as a Subaru.
I swore we'd never buy another Subaru after the airbag recall replacement delays with the '09, but guess what we bought as wife's daily driver last July?
Very happy with the car and glad we bought it.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
+1
I'm happy that Toyota has left Subaru alone, not that their small ownership stake would give them anything like control anyway.

Toyota's 16% ownership stake DOES give them controlling interest in Subaru. In japan, things work differently in the corporate world than they do here, one does not need to own 51% of the shares to have controlling interest in a company, they only need to own the MAJORITY of shares relative to anyone else.
Make no mistake, Toyota COULD call all of the shots at Subaru (or any one of the dozens of other companies that they have controlling interest in), but they are a smart and shrewd company and leave most of the members of their family of companies alone when they are performing well. Subaru has performed exceptionally well, WAY beyond anyone's wildest expectations! Toyota learned a lot from their partnership with GM, specifically, they learned what NOT to do, and it has helped Subaru to thrive as a member of their family.
Mazda desperately wants to become a member of the Toyota family of companies. They can plainly see what it did for Subaru. Toyota currently only holds a 5% stake in Mazda, not nearly enough to have a controlling interest. Stay tuned, I think that this will change within the next few years.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Not surprised. Subaru is now in business of making strictly appliance cars. WRX is there, but most of products are made for people who strictly want to go from point A to point B. Nothing else.


Subaru’s recipe is crushing every other car makers growth year to year since the great car recession. I have a non appliance version of Subaru Legacy wagon with civilized (factory tune for 250HP) STI engine and manual. Subaru sold only 1000 in its only year and pulled the plug on it in 2005. We purchased because of massive $3000 rebate and sold at invoice.
 
There is a significant chunk of the buying public that is perfectly happy with an "appliance" type vehicle, and as such there will always be a few car manufacturers that will build it for those customers.
 
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
There is a significant chunk of the buying public that is perfectly happy with an "appliance" type vehicle, and as such there will always be a few car manufacturers that will build it for those customers.


Nissan pretty much acknowledged that now, they are heavily pursuing fleet orders and rideshare drivers. A decade ago, Ford/GM/Chrysler made the rolls at Hertz/Avis/Budget/Enterprise but now Altimas and Sentras make a bulk of those fleets. When Uber decided to interrupt Lyft's lunch with UberX, the Prius was the car for Uber(and it still is) but Nissan also agressively courted that market. I now see as many Altimas, Sentras and Versas with Uber placards on parity with Prii and Camry Hybrids.

Mitsubishi is also courting the appliance car market with the Mirage. I don't see too many of those around, especially since a
"nicer" Versa/Yaris iA or even a Rio/Accent isn't much more on a note.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: nthach
Either Subaru will offer a turbo motor standard in the next Forester or a nice HP/TQ increase. I find NA Subarus to be anemic on power, especially since the CR-V is pushing towards 200HP and Toyota could drop the new 2.5L Dynamic Force engine in 180HP form in the RAV4.

Of course a business argument would be not to offer a turbo engine in the Forester so it doesn't cannibalize sales of the Ascent which will come with a TGDI 2.5L H4.

The Forester is popular in my neck of the woods, Subaru is going norm-core away from their traditonal crowd. They don't call them Lesbarus for nothing.

I'm holding out hope that the XT model may be going away since the base engine is rumored to be a turbo, but that there will still be an option for a higher hp Forester. Subaru has already stated that the U.S. will get more STI variants as well (or perhaps STI inspired like the tS models). I'd be willing to overlook the Forester's barge-ness and lack of a manual transmission for the right overall package.

Torque News did come out with another story about the XT since the one in the OP:

Quote:
The rumor mill is spinning and we’ve heard from another source, Subaru could keep the 2.0-liter turbo engine in the new 2019 Forester, and change the badge from Forester XT, to Forester Sport. This would make sense for the Japanese automaker as consumers don’t know that X stands for AWD and T stands for Turbo.


https://www.torquenews.com/1084/more-new-fifth-generation-2019-subaru-forester-details-emerge

IIRC, X actually stands for crossover.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: bluesubie

IIRC, X actually stands for crossover.

I thought X in Subaru-speak was referring to the engine - but there's an Outback/Legacy 3.0 and 3.6R.
 
I miss the hood scooped XT design. I think I read they did away with that for better aero, but it was cool seeing the functional scoop to the top mount.

It is a shame they did away with the manual. As it is I wouldn't consider the XT with the CVT. Might be nothing to worry about, but if I had the XT i'd want to be sure the transmission could take some abuse and extra power from tuning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top