New vehicle- change ff within 1k or go full OCI?

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Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Trav
There is a huge discrepancy in owners manuals, In Germany and other Euro countries 1K (600mi) is still recommended for many vehicles, there are a number of reasons for this in the US non of which have anything to do with whats best for the engine. I change it at 500-600 miles.
Also I do an early change on the transmission and differential


I agree with both. I also do a trans and diff drain/fill within 20k miles. I haven't yet failed to find significant amounts of metal flakes in any of those fluid dumps...with the least amount of flake-age being present in the transmission fluids.

On every new vehicle I've owned, dumping the FF in favor of a quality break-in oil of the remainder of the std OCI, always revealed TONS of metal shavings and specs. The comment about the finish on a bass boat has been true for every vehicle I have owned from new. Including those i haven't owned, like my parent's 2007 4-Runner 4.7, my brother's Hyundai 2007 Sonata 3.3, my sister's 2015 Corolla, and my buddy's 2008 Frontier quad-cab 4.0....to name a few.

All of them had the heavy bass-boat flake-age in the oil when dumped around 1k miles. I am not saying that this was inherently harmful, but my logical mind tells me it's not beneficial to any degree. The 2nd OCI on all those vehicles looked normal with the break-in oil (usually a high zinc oil with some MOS2 added); with no discernible metal flakes present.
 
Interesting replies all-

It seems there are to camps on this issue.

1: I drain the FF early and can easily see metal particulate in the drained oil. Whether catastrophic or not this cannot be good and is almost certainly bad for any engine's longevity. Whatever gain there might be from leaving the FF with it's remnants of assembly lube etc. in is offset by getting the junk out and a quality oil/filter installed. One oc is marginal in a vehicle's overall cost.

2: I leave the FF in until the recommended oci. I don't believe there is any real gain in changing the oil sooner. The FF and filter are more than adequate to protect the engine until the recommended change, doing so early is a waste of time and money and if useful break in lube additives are washed away could even be detrimental to long term engine life.

Both certainly have their merits.
 
Here's something I like to ponder. I know if I send off a UOA from a new car, even after dumping the oil at 1K miles there's a lot of wear metals in it. Taking it to the full interval will only mean there's more in there and for a longer time. I want it out early, wasted time and resources or not. Engine builders, auto shop teachers, and master techs like Trav have been recommending doing so for as far back as I can remember. I'll stick to doing it, old habits die hard.
 
Originally Posted By: mattri
Interesting replies all-

It seems there are to camps on this issue.

1: I drain the FF early and can easily see metal particulate in the drained oil. Whether catastrophic or not this cannot be good and is almost certainly bad for any engine's longevity. Whatever gain there might be from leaving the FF with it's remnants of assembly lube etc. in is offset by getting the junk out and a quality oil/filter installed. One oc is marginal in a vehicle's overall cost.

2: I leave the FF in until the recommended oci. I don't believe there is any real gain in changing the oil sooner. The FF and filter are more than adequate to protect the engine until the recommended change, doing so early is a waste of time and money and if useful break in lube additives are washed away could even be detrimental to long term engine life.

Both certainly have their merits.


Those in the second camp don't know how to change their oil and have everything done through the dealer, hence they are [censored] bent against anything that isn't dealer recommended. Similar to how people who don't know how to drive stick shift keep on criticizing manual transmissions.
 
Last edited:
The other side might say you're lazy or cheap if you don't.
wink.gif
 
If the VIN number ends with an even number... do the FF @ 1K. If it ends in an odd number run it out to the manufacturers limit.
 
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: mattri
Interesting replies all-

It seems there are to camps on this issue.

1: I drain the FF early and can easily see metal particulate in the drained oil. Whether catastrophic or not this cannot be good and is almost certainly bad for any engine's longevity. Whatever gain there might be from leaving the FF with it's remnants of assembly lube etc. in is offset by getting the junk out and a quality oil/filter installed. One oc is marginal in a vehicle's overall cost.

2: I leave the FF in until the recommended oci. I don't believe there is any real gain in changing the oil sooner. The FF and filter are more than adequate to protect the engine until the recommended change, doing so early is a waste of time and money and if useful break in lube additives are washed away could even be detrimental to long term engine life.

Both certainly have their merits.


Those in the second camp don't know how to change their oil and have everything done through the dealer, hence they are [censored] bent against anything that isn't dealer recommended. Similar to how people who don't know how to drive stick shift keep on criticizing manual transmissions.


Honda begs to differ. They use a special break-in oil with a high-moly additive in their FF, not sold commercially or otherwise available outside the Honda factories
smile.gif
 
I changed the oil at 1,600 miles on the Prius and I had to wear sunglasses from all the sparkling glitter which came out in the factory fill.

All of my subsequent changes at 10k intervals have been normal.
 
I went with the happy medium on my Versa... First OCI was 2k, second was 3k from that. The third was 5k from that and I am about to settle in on 6k for good (give or take).
 
I Caved in and changed the oil of the new Titan at 1500 miles.Didnt see any glitter.
 
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog

Honda begs to differ. They use a special break-in oil with a high-moly additive in their FF, not sold commercially or otherwise available outside the Honda factories
smile.gif



Urban legend. Please post a link to where Honda says that.
 
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog

Honda begs to differ. They use a special break-in oil with a high-moly additive in their FF, not sold commercially or otherwise available outside the Honda factories
smile.gif



Urban legend. Please post a link to where Honda says that.


I will not do the heavy lifting for you as you can do a little Google search on your own and find plenty of Honda factory fill UOA's that show it to be a high Moly count (500+ ppm) oil. So it is not a urban legend.

Also, quite a few of the Korean makes factory fill follows the same high Moly count.
 
Who is Monte Doran and what happened 33 years ago??? I have been awake for 3 days working extra shifts and things are not making sense to me right now.I need to know, was Monte Doran involved in something 33 years ago? I will be off work at 3:00pm tomorrow.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog

Honda begs to differ. They use a special break-in oil with a high-moly additive in their FF, not sold commercially or otherwise available outside the Honda factories
smile.gif



Urban legend. Please post a link to where Honda says that.


I will not do the heavy lifting for you as you can do a little Google search on your own and find plenty of Honda factory fill UOA's that show it to be a high Moly count (500+ ppm) oil. So it is not a urban legend.

Also, quite a few of the Korean makes factory fill follows the same high Moly count.


Moly is a friction modifier. It does the opposite of what you want in a break in oil. You should be changing out the ff even sooner then, like as soon as you drive off the dealer lot.
 
I would do the first oil change at half of the interval that I plan on doing in the future. So for cars with an oil life monitoring system, do the first oil change when it hits 50%, then all the rest do at 0%.
 
I agree with Patman. Do the FF change at ~ 1/2 because I want the assemble lubes to protect against scuffing etc. Dumping the FF too early may even be detrimental to good break in. Ed
 
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