New tires best in front or rear?

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
If it rains where you live, on the rear is best.

It doesn't really rain here, so my Camry has it's best pair on the front.


Depends what you mean by "best", but if you're talking primarily about tread depth, you don't need it in the dry.

Bald tyres will out perform tread in dry conditions.

If your "worst" tyres are significantly older, that introduces another variable and greater hardness of the compound might make them less effective.

All my tyres are old, so lately I put the better treaded ones on the front in the dry season, but thats to even up the wear a bit, not for performance reasons.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Fishtailing and spinning out due to hydroplaning on your rear tires is worse than a bit of understeer. You can get sideways very fast, and maybe roll over as you traverse a ditch off the side. Not good.
Besides, all cars sold in the past 7 years have Stability Control, which will apply differential side-to-side braking to reduce severe understeer that you fear so much, and the driver instinctively goes to apply front brakes to slow down during understeer and bust through the hydroplaning water film under the front at the same time.

Never put new tires on the front. Always put them on the back. New tires on back only, unless you never drive in the wet, or can remember to drive much slower in the rain (still dubious).

+1

 

[4WD]

The only times I didn’t buy 4 is when I bought 5 …

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: jhs914
I always prefer to install the new tires on the front here in Florida. I grew up driving and power sliding on dirt roads. Counter steering into a skid caused by loss of traction in the rear is instinctive to me. The recommendation to have the worn tires on the front because if they loose traction you will continue plowing straight ahead is idiotic to me.

There is no feeling more powerless than turning the wheel and having nothing happen. Same thing for hitting the brakes and having the fronts lock up. Give me steering over loss of traction in the rear every time. I can control the car as long as I have the ability to steer.


Do you ever let your wife/kids drive a tail happy car ?

 

[BrocLuno]

Yup, and my wife can counter steer too. We all grew up on dirt bikes, so going sideways (slideways

) is a way of life.

Thank goodness I don't own anything made in the last 7 years. I'm getting real tired of other folks doing my thinking for me ...

 

[Ducked]

I try and drive for fuel economy, which tends to the sedate, so I havn't developed much skill, but conservation of momentum sometimes tempts me to corner perhaps a little too fast.

I've "only" lost control of a 4-wheel vehicle twice. Both times I entered a descending curve a bit too fast for the greasy conditions, in gear (I would normally be coasting in neutral) in a FWD manual car and lifted off.

I think the engine braking transferred weight to the front tyres and unstuck the back. The lateral force from the curve then rotated the car around the front wheels.

The first time (borrowed Mini Metro) the car spun 180 degrees, went through a hedge backwards (probably the best way to go through a hedge) and stopped at the edge of a cliff. There wasn't time to do much more than centre the steering, though I probably braked on the way through the hedge.

Second time (my Daihatsu Skywing) the back swung out into the opposing lane, I counter steered, and was able to pull it back in line before hitting anything.

I'm pretty sure better grip at the front, even if only temporary, contributed to both incidents, though it MAY also have helped recovery in the second.

Due to a puncture I'd had to replace ONE tyre (remember this was a borrowed car) on the Metro with a new one. I can't now remember if it went on the front or the rear, but if it was on the front, as I suspect, it would go a long way toward explaining the snappy rotation.

Never had anything similar with RWD.

 

[bbhero]

I think the front is better. What tires make first contact with water in the road in front of us?? The front. There is where I would rather have better tread to cut through water the best if they are in front. For snow... Better traction up front and where is the most weight located the front. On a front wheel drive car that is very helpful in snowy conditions.

However there is a downside for sure and I will agree with having the better tires up front. 1) People can over drive or drive to fast for the conditions and 2) this leads to not being able to steer out of trouble. That is true. Therefore if someone wants them on the back for that reason I can understand that.

However, I have always put my best tires up front and never at anytime have had any trouble at all. Not one time. I guess it really is a matter of how someone likes to approach or drive in rain or snowy conditions.

 

[bbhero]

I am going to tell you something here which was my real deal experience.. I lost contact with the road driving 67 mph on a straight road in very heavy rain and the road was tilted down hill with divots in the pavement. I never touched the brakes. I barely and I mean barely put hardly in steering input into the steering wheel. My left side tires came within a foot of going off the pavement. I knew that if I got off into the wet grass I likely was going to wreck bigtime. So I very, very gingerly put a touch of steering input in to get my car to the right away from that left edge. I was successful in that but ended up 3-4 feet into the right lane. And about that time my tires regained traction with the road finally.
There's no way in the world I believe a strong majority of regular people can truly "steer" themselves out of a hydroplaning situation. They will almost always end up wrecking. It hardly takes any steering wheel input and one would lose control. And once you put too much wheel into it... You are toast. Because you can't catch you to what you need to do to correct it. The only thing that kept me from wrecking BAD that day.... I had the presence of mind not to put a lot of wheel into what was going on there. Hardly putting any steering input into the circumstance kept me from a bad accident.

 

[Shannow]

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
For wet weather, i'd want the better tires on the front.


Here in South Florida, with the heavy rains and near zero corners, just high speed highways, it's considerably safer to have the new tires on the front. As they move the standing water away from the rear tires that have less tread, leading to a good overall result. Loss of steering due to hydroplaining bald front tires while at speed on the highway is unrecoverable.

 

[Astro14]

Rear.

Visit Tire Rack and watch the videos. Pulling traction on a FWD is a specious consideration compared with stability in slippery surfaces.

Stability and predictability win.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Here in South Florida, with the heavy rains and near zero corners, just high speed highways, it's considerably safer to have the new tires on the front.


Sorry, but that is 1000% incorrect. And all the experts disagree with you.

Having the older tires on the front, you can quickly feel when traction is lost, which causes you to slow down. New tires on the front, and people tend to overdrive their rear tires, which is way more dangerous.

It's literally almost impossible to spin out a car with new tires in the back, in the rain, even with an expert driving.

Go watch the "hundreds" of test videos on the subject. And if you still come to the same conclusion, then well, you're just stubborn I guess and don't like learning new concepts.

 

[Claud]

I get the impression the advocates of fitting new tires to the front seriously over estimate their driving skills. I have lost count of the number of people bragging about how their "skills" managed to get them out of a bad situation, without considering they didn't have the skill required to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.
Like most men, I thought my driving ability was much better than it really was, now I know enough to drive within my cars and my own limitations.

Claud.

 

[IndyIan]

How much newer/better is the question. If the old tires are within 3 or 4/32 and a couple years in age, put the new ones on the axle that wears fastest. If the old tires are getting near the wear bars then just get all 4 and rotate them.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno


Consensus ... Tom, what are you thinking ...


LOL...forgot this was BITOG! Nonetheless the varying points of view are interesting and helpful.

I haven't decided which new tires to buy yet but will be shopping on Tirerack.com to get ratings for my driving needs.

I fishtailed in snow several times many many years ago. I was usually able to steer out but a couple of times did a 360, once into a divider, so I don't have great confidence in my ability to control the car in a sudden fishtail, especially in traffic. I am a careful and cautious driver with only one minor accident in 50 years of driving and no serious fishtailing incidents in over 40 years, but that means no experience with them either.

I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains with lots of hills, twists and turns, a few snows and ice each winter, and a fair amount of rain (40+"/yr). Fortunately little traffic with a population density of only 36 people/square mile. Still given the terrain and weather, rear wheel mount seems better suited.

Tom NJ/VA

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Claud
I get the impression the advocates of fitting new tires to the front seriously over estimate their driving skills. I have lost count of the number of people bragging about how their "skills" managed to get them out of a bad situation, without considering they didn't have the skill required to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.
Like most men, I thought my driving ability was much better than it really was, now I know enough to drive within my cars and my own limitations.

Claud.


Exactly.

And setting up "less excellent" drivers for an accident through unpredictable handling when handling really matters (*).

The statement that the fronts clear a path for the rears is only re;event in a straight line...ad an aquaplane in a straight line is way different to one on a curve...where all four wheels have their own arc through the curve, and the rears AREN'T getting the "protection" of the front wheels clearing a path.

When the tyres aquaplane, they can provide zero lateral force bar whatever rudder effect they can.

You aren't Fangio in a classical four wheel drift, the car is going to want to pivot around the fronts with the grip...if you do "correct", you will be straight lining int anyway, just doing it sideways and not where you want to go.

Normal human response in an awkward situation is to slow and apply more steering angle...which works in understeer. Plus you find the limit more progressively that sudden tail out (*)

(*) I learned to actually drive in the Pine Forests around Canberra, rally territory...always sideways. I set up one of my fast cars with a really heavy rear bar, as that was my fastest way around roundabouts on the street (Canberra full of roundabouts then, and some really big ones)...I found that I couldn't in any conscience lend that car to anyone but my brother or his mate in the wet or gravel, as they induced snap oversteer backing off at the wrong point.

If you are as good as you think, and can handle a zero lateral traction event at the rear and choose to ignore scientifically demonstrated advice, please don't let anyone else into it.

 

[OilGuy2]

AS far as new tires to the front or the rear is concerned. it really depends upon the car, the driver, the time of year, terrain and weather conditions.

Since 1980, with one AWD exception, every car we've purchased has been front wheel drive. After two winters, the front tires are removed and replaced with two new front tires. The rear tires stay in place. After two more years, the no longer new replacement fronts go to the back and the back tires (the originals) are tossed. Two new tires are again put on the front. I never rotate the tires. I buy 2 tires every other year. I always have new or one year old tires on the front of a front wheel drive car going into the winter. The front wheels do 100% of the steering, 100% of the powering and 80% of the braking. The rear tires are along for the ride and they are never bald. Buying 2 tires every other year is easy on the budget and have allowed me to purchase much better quality tires: DWS 06 if you get my "drift". My cars always have ABS: a necessity if you drive in winter conditions and wish to keep your insurance rates low.

If you can't afford expensive tires (and many can't), I suggest an S, T or H tire with a block tread pattern for snow season. Silica based rubber compound will help a lot. They're out there but you have to do your homework before you buy. The Imperial Eco tire is impressive for severe winter at reasonable cost but its for Alaska, Canada and high elevations. General Altimax RT-43, Riken Raptor HR, Sumitomo HTR A/S P02, are excellent tires under $100. The Riken is $60. You can see the reviews on Tire Rack.com If you need just two tires and can afford $118 a tire, check out the Continental DWS 06 if you need a high performing winter tire that you will grow to love. My suggestions are strictly for Northern Tier drivers. Hot areas require specially chosen tires too.

 

[UG_Passat]

I'm never in the position to buy only 2 tires. I rotate my tires often enough that there isn't a significant difference between the tread between the front and rear tires.

The new tire in the rear argument also prevents people from rotating tires on a front engine, FWD car, as you tend to get more wear on the front wheels, so the only time you rotate tires is when you buy new tires, but then you can have a mismatch in rolling circumferences between the 2 axles, but probably not enough to mess with the ABS and stability control systems. Not to mention, this also encourages the mismatch of tire models/brands on a vehicle.... so what happens if you put a new, but inferior tire in the rear?

 

[mightymousetech]

If there is a significant difference in tread depth between the front and rear sets, you are not rotating your tires anywhere near often enough.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
If there is a significant difference in tread depth between the front and rear sets, you are not rotating your tires anywhere near often enough.


Isn't the point to put the tires with more tread depth in the rear? This defeats the purpose of tire rotation on a front engine, FWD car (most cars). Since most cars, the front tires wear more, and experts say to keep the "newer" tires (more tread depth) in the rear, the only time you rotate tires is when you buy 2 new tires.

If you rotated the tires often enough to equalize the wear, then you would need 4 new tires, instead of buying 2 new tires and keeping bald tires for the front axle.